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| Graham In Kenya | Rate Topic |
| Author | Post |
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 06:26 | 1st Post |
First day out with D500 and 80-400 AF-S Croc also interested in birds
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 06:28 | 2nd Post |
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 06:29 | 3rd Post |
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 06:31 | 4th Post |
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 06:33 | 5th Post |
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 06:35 | 6th Post |
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| Posted by jk: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 07:24 | 7th Post |
| Fine images Graham. Love the one of the hornbill especially. Which part of Kenya are you at?
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 07:47 | 8th Post |
| Glad you included the flower in post #3, seems you just missed the mothers, the fruits are forming. All the pix are superb bit agree with Jk on post #3, good as the Hornbill is, the flower makes it for me. Can you identify the tree/flower? I have no uses, the leaves are pretty distinctive, the flower looks like a Lilly
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 09:28 | 9th Post |
White-Backed Vultures
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 09:31 | 10th Post |
Sacred Ibes
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 09:34 | 11th Post |
Yellow-Crowned Bishops
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 09:41 | 12th Post |
Spotted Thick-Knee, Very like Stone Curlew not quite enough DOF even at f22 with 400mm & x1.4
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 09:44 | 13th Post |
JK in the Rift Valley near Magadi
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 09:53 | 14th Post |
Eurasian Stone-Curlew this was quite a big blow-up
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 10:43 | 15th Post |
| Nice picture of the reticulated giraffes.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 13:39 | 16th Post |
Another small group. Bob and I are off to his place near Mt Kenya in the morning hope we will get conection again to send lates batch of new pixs.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 13:41 | 17th Post |
Spur-Winged Plovers
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Iain: Sat Nov 23rd, 2019 16:28 | 18th Post |
| Nice set of images Graham.
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| Posted by Eric: Sun Nov 24th, 2019 15:20 | 19th Post |
| Wonderful birds, Graham. Keep 'em coming.
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| Posted by blackfox: Mon Nov 25th, 2019 05:47 | 20th Post |
| wow I'm very impressed so far graham keep them coming and enjoy
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Nov 25th, 2019 08:44 | 21st Post |
We have had bit of bad luck Bopbs Landrover halfshaf broke just 50 miles short of his bush house near Mt Kenya. Wewere toed into local town good Landrover Garage but will tank a few days. Got x4W Drive local taxi it was by now very heavy rain and slipery dirt and very wet road last few miles took a long time. Now safley at Bobs super bush home stii rained all night. News of washouts in some places so we have no choice to stay put while spares come up from Niarobi. In mean time over 140 types of wild birds all round the house. Sun birds etc. This is Hadada Ibis.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Nov 25th, 2019 08:48 | 22nd Post |
Not much luck most of day and poor light but this is a Red-Cheeked Cordon-Blu All with D500 and 80-400AF-S costly plusx 1.4 1000 ISO
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Nov 25th, 2019 08:54 | 23rd Post |
A young Yellow Billed Stork
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Nov 25th, 2019 08:57 | 24th Post |
Outside the front door about a foot long.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Nov 25th, 2019 09:11 | 25th Post |
The Oxpeckers help the animals get rid of the bugs, this Warthog is very happy to let it do the work for him!
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| Posted by Eric: Mon Nov 25th, 2019 11:13 | 26th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:The Oxpeckers help the animals get rid of the bugs, this Warthog is very happy to let it do the work for him!Graham....you are going to have to reduce the size of the bait you are putting out to attract the birds!  Great shot though. I never realised how incongruous a warthogs legs are. They look decidedly feminine for such a macho beast. I assume it's not a lady warthog?
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Nov 25th, 2019 13:21 | 27th Post |
The Storks do not seem in least bit worried by all the Crocs, Bob said the Crocs like fish not birds.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Nov 25th, 2019 13:33 | 28th Post |
There are a lot of Egyptian Geese here.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Nov 25th, 2019 14:29 | 29th Post |
Long-Tailed Fiscal Shrike yes Eric these did come to marmalade sam! Not good as it was raining.
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| Posted by novicius: Mon Nov 25th, 2019 21:57 | 30th Post |
Wonderful photo´s....could n´t say which is best...
____________________ Back in Danmark I do not use my equipment to make photo`s .. I take photo`s to use my equipment The better I become at photography,the better my camera gets. |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Nov 26th, 2019 05:01 | 31st Post |
Rufous Sparrow on the feeder this morning. Still very heavy rains and all sunbirds and others hiding. Bobs Landrover is bad news and due to poor servicing before we set out no oil in gearbox so local man has got to get one gearbox (big money) up from Niarobi ASAP but could be days so we are stranded here with no transport. Sadly I have paid to 3 days for us at super game reserve plus hotel we have no way of getting there with out Bobs car they will not refund my £500.00!. Plenty of birds here in garden of Bobs bush house to photo but we need better weather. If car not repaired in time for my flight home next week at least we can pay locat x4 WD taxi to take us back to Nirobi but long drive!!! Not happy we planned this trip in detail months ago.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Nov 26th, 2019 06:46 | 32nd Post |
| Oh dear. Bl**dy Landrovers. Probably a silly question but can't you rent a car from the garage? Seems a shame to kiss goodbye to the game reserve. Or did you need the Landrover to get about when you were there? I thought you were meeting up with a bird expert guide? Has he got transport to 'pick you up'. I am sure you have considered these options ....just me feeling frustrated for you.  On a positive note, you are getting a range of birds where you are. Let's hope the weather clears and if you have to stay in that location you will get some more shots. Nice shrike by the way...and sat on thorns as well.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Nov 26th, 2019 08:53 | 33rd Post |
Thank goodness Eric spares arived and we will have Landrover back tomorrow and week of holiday remains. Sun out this afternoon out came the Scarlet-chested Sunbird.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Nov 26th, 2019 08:55 | 34th Post |
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 03:26 | 35th Post |
This morning outside my bedroom window a pair of Mousebirds
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Robert: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 05:48 | 36th Post |
| Wonderful Graham, what a treat, a beautiful picture. So pleased you have prospect of the Land Rover being fixed and back on the track. I have a very similar problem with a Land Rover I try to look after, I fitted a gearbox about ten years ago, I stripped it and checked it, replacing a couple of gears and some bearings, because the previous one had lost it's oil and seized. Now second gear on the replacement gearbox has gone for the same reason. It's so easy to check and replenish, but nobody seems to do it. Modern vehicles tend to be oil-tight, so users seem to forget it used to be normal practice to check gearbox and axle oil once a month or so. The problem with Land Rovers is that the oil leaks out of the back of the main gearbox and into the transfer box, which has plenty of spare capacity, so it may well still in the vehicle, just not in the right place. Consequently there are no tell tale pools of oil when parked.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 07:53 | 37th Post |
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 08:01 | 38th Post |
| Elephants across the valley from Bobs house with D500 and 400-80mm at 400mm plus x1.4, this afternoon later hope to collect the landrover. We will then be able to take day trips from our base here to other interesting places.
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| Posted by Iain: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 09:30 | 39th Post |
| For all the problems you are still getting some nice stuff.
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| Posted by Robert: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 11:43 | 40th Post |
| Ahh! The Elephants! Magnificent creatures, you really are spoiling us. PS. Can we have a pic of the Land Rover please? Bonus with Lion on the roof!
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| Posted by jk: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 12:15 | 41st Post |
Robert wrote:Ahh! The Elephants!If the lion is on the roof then no pictures unless they reach down to look through the windows! 
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 12:17 | 42nd Post |
| Love the hazy background to the elephants. No wildebeste yet! Or rhino, water buffalo.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 12:51 | 43rd Post |
Robert wrote:Ahh! The Elephants!A moving picture of it going would be preferable.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 14:13 | 44th Post |
Sorry chaps still at Bobs bush house plenty of birds but we have missed our 3 days in a big reserve with big beasts. With luck will get Landrover back in morning so still some time left. We have also had bad luck with weather, huge amounts of rain and wind today keeping most of birds away. These two chps are Marabou Storks good lookers are they not!
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Nov 27th, 2019 14:19 | 45th Post |
Black Wing Stilts, same as we gt in UK
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 04:40 | 46th Post |
Black-Headed Heron after all the rain the bush is now full of flowers. Bob has just got a lift into town to get the Landrover. With luck we will head North in the morning to Samburu Nat Park, plenty of animals and birds.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 04:42 | 47th Post |
Hartebeest and on low left a male Impala.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 04:45 | 48th Post |
Buffalo for JK
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 05:57 | 49th Post |
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 05:59 | 50th Post |
Bobs House
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 06:02 | 51st Post |
The lizards and hoping to see Bob soon now with the repaired Landrover. Eric can see no problem perhaps internet is very flakey.
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| Posted by Eric: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 07:49 | 52nd Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:The lizards and hoping to see Bob soon now with the repaired Landrover. Eric can see no problem perhaps internet is very flakey.These are excellent images, Graham. Must have been a transmission glitch because it was just the elephant image that I was querying (having breakup when you zoom in on the elephants) 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 12:57 | 53rd Post |
| Yes it is not good I must reprocess the NEF. We have Landrover and off first thing, fly back nxet Tuesday. Thanks for kind comments.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 13:25 | 54th Post |
| Hope you enjoy the rest of your trip Graham. Keep shooting and posting when you get a chance.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 15:03 | 55th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:Yes it is not good I must reprocess the NEF. We have Landrover and off first thing, fly back nxet Tuesday. Thanks for kind comments.Looking forward to the next chapter.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by novicius: Thu Nov 28th, 2019 15:36 | 56th Post |
| Love that Elephant photo....and yes, a photo of the Landrover with Lions on top would be appreciated.
____________________ Back in Danmark I do not use my equipment to make photo`s .. I take photo`s to use my equipment The better I become at photography,the better my camera gets. |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 05:38 | 57th Post |
Elephants in the river last night
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 05:40 | 58th Post |
White-Throated Bee-Eater
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| Posted by Eric: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 05:56 | 59th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:White-Throated Bee-EaterWOW!!! 
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 07:30 | 60th Post |
Impala
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 07:32 | 61st Post |
Bug Hunting?
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 07:34 | 62nd Post |
Yes a Canary but this is a wild one in the bush.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 07:36 | 63rd Post |
Mousebird
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| Posted by Robert: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 07:41 | 64th Post |
| Wonderful Graham, keep them coming, surely it can't get better than this? That Mousebird is amazing. You must be really enjoying this despite the setbacks.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 08:07 | 65th Post |
We had good day in game reserve about 100 mile N of Bobs house very wet and tough roads in reserve but Bobs been driving in the bush most of his life. We were worried as the newley repaired Landrover (£800 bill) started now make more and more transmission noise we had at 5.30 just rejoined the main road S to go home and we came to a grindig halt!!! Mobile phone not good but at last got help and low loader came. Long and slow return home, 1.30pm but glad to be safely back. Landrover to be taken to Niarobi as local chap not up to the job. We will get lift back on Monday in time for me to fly back next Tuesday. So wild birds in Bobs garden for next two days all bad luck as no Lions but could have been very bad news if it had failed in the game reserve with no mobile phone an due to the extreme wet we have had very few people in there. More rain to come.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 08:39 | 66th Post |
I think his is trying to impress us?
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| Posted by jk: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 11:23 | 67th Post |
| Got some great pictures Graham. Elephants crossing the river is very good. Some visual challenges in it with horizon sloping but elephants are level. The mist in the distance is great. Just shows how much rain has fallen. Bee-eaters are very fine. We get those ones in Spain but it is difficult to get them static as they are overhead and flying at speed catching bees and other insects. The D500 and 200-500 works well for me though but nothing like as good as yours!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Bob Bowen: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 12:40 | 68th Post |
| Great images Graham. Went to Kruger in SA many years ago. Managed the Big Five but not herds as you have seen. Shame about the transport hitches.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 13:06 | 69th Post |
Lilac-Breasted Roller
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 13:09 | 70th Post |
Warthog Family
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| Posted by jk: Sat Nov 30th, 2019 16:01 | 71st Post |
| Fantastic picture of the warthog family. Never seen so many together.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Dec 1st, 2019 02:53 | 72nd Post |
Crested Francolin, raining today and not much in way of birds. Serious flooding in other parts including main hospital in Niarobi. We are going back there in morning so hope roads are OK but once on main road tar all way. One of Bobs friends giving us a lift in. Landrover taken to Niarobi overnight on low loader. I fly back to UK Tueday
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| Posted by Robert: Sun Dec 1st, 2019 06:21 | 73rd Post |
| That's looks like a cheeky chappie! Thank you so much Graham for naming the various species, especially the birds, it adds greatly to the posts.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Dec 1st, 2019 10:45 | 74th Post |
| JK Thanks for poining out the faulty horizon is this better with some help from Photoshop CC? Back to Niarobi in morning and fly back to UK Tuesday night. No more new pixs today very dull and rain I may add a few on my return but I think I have shown most of the good ones. Attachment: Elephants in River 2670.jpg (Downloaded 62 times)
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Dec 1st, 2019 11:03 | 75th Post |
| I do not know what went wrong there just as I was replacing the old shot there was an internet jump all was lost when I logged back in there was this mess sorry folks.
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| Posted by blackfox: Sun Dec 1st, 2019 12:37 | 76th Post |
| super series graham ,shame about the Land Rover but if it had gone out in the wilds then it might have been really bad .. seen on the news that the rains are causing landslides etc out there stay safe is the main thing
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| Posted by jk: Sun Dec 1st, 2019 12:40 | 77th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:JK Thanks for poining out the faulty horizon is this better with some help from Photoshop CC? Back to Niarobi in morning and fly back to UK Tuesday night. No more new pixs today very dull and rain I may add a few on my return but I think I have shown most of the good ones.I was not saying the horizon was off as if you use the line of elephants as a horizon then the far horizon will be up hill which is probably incorrect! I was commenting that the various horizons made the image more interesting!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Dec 1st, 2019 18:16 | 78th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:ImpalaJan says ...can you bring a couple of those home for our back garden? Lovely animals, excellent photo.
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| Posted by Eric: Sun Dec 1st, 2019 18:17 | 79th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:Lilac-Breasted RollerWonderful image.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 04:03 | 80th Post |
White-Eyed Slaty Flycatcher in Bob's Nairobi House last night in heavy rain. Had to push ISA. Used very little suntan lotion this trip so much rain and flooding. If landrover had not failed 2nd time we would have time in Nairobi Game Park super birds there but closed with floodwater. We came S yesteday 200miles 4 hrs a friend gave us a lift, as Landrover sent down on lowloader. Would have taken lot more pixs if we had not been stranded for several days with no transport or no way of hiring unless we were in Niarobi apart from local taxi. The town up N was very small just local produce. Nairobi is the major (grid locked) major city. Fly home tonight with some good images, I have never seen Africa looking so green!
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 07:35 | 81st Post |
Bronze Sunbird female.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 07:38 | 82nd Post |
Grey Headed Sparrow, see what I mead about green bush! As I post this in Bobs house the heavans have opened again so hope my plane gets off tonigth!
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 08:18 | 83rd Post |
Little Rock Thrush, some of these are taken hand held at wide open f no from Landrover window. Very much see bird on bush driving on very rough bush road and grab shot quickly before it flys away so perhps not quite as sharp as I would like but still, I hope, of interest.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 08:56 | 84th Post |
Another Littlw Rock Thrush with bit better light. It has been bit heavy going some days with all the rain.
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| Posted by Robert: Tue Dec 3rd, 2019 10:37 | 85th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:Grey Headed Sparrow, see what I mead about green bush! As I post this in Bobs house the heavans have opened again so hope my plane gets off tonigth!The spiders web is sharp enough so the bird is twitching, as they do. The Little Rock Thrush is superb, I love the thorns. If I were you I would be throwing my plane ticket away, wait for the Land Rover to get fixed and go walkabouts in the bush with the Land Rover. What a wonderful trip.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Fri Dec 6th, 2019 12:08 | 86th Post |
| Look forward to seeing more images now you are back home. I find there are always hidden gems that you find when you have time. Was good to talk on the phone today about the trip and your trials with the LandRover gearbox.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Dec 7th, 2019 12:37 | 87th Post |
Glossy Ibis
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Dec 7th, 2019 12:39 | 88th Post |
Sacred Ibis and Red Billed Hornbill Attachment: Red_Billed Hornbill 2622.jpg (Downloaded 255 times)
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Sat Dec 7th, 2019 14:44 | 89th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:Glossy IbisAbsolutely superb Graham. Wonderful light and the colours on the Ibis are perfect.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Dec 9th, 2019 09:51 | 90th Post |
Another pix of the Spotted Thick-knee, very similar to UK Stone Curlew
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Dec 9th, 2019 09:52 | 91st Post |
Blacksmith Lapwing
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Robert: Mon Dec 9th, 2019 15:55 | 92nd Post |
| Amazing Graham, they just keep coming. Gorgeous pictures and thank you so much for the names, it adds so much to the story.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Dec 10th, 2019 08:46 | 93rd Post |
| Some lovely work there Graham. You said you had already posted the best but the last too are top drawer. Well done. Jan liked the Mouse birds...I pruned the twig so we can see the right one better. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Dec 12th, 2019 14:50 | 94th Post |
This is the rather rare Reticulated Giraffe
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Thu Dec 12th, 2019 14:58 | 95th Post |
| There used to be many Reticulated giraffes in Samburu in 1970/80s.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Dec 12th, 2019 15:32 | 96th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:This is the rather rare Reticulated GiraffeThat's a lovely image, Graham. You must be very pleased.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Fri Dec 13th, 2019 04:11 | 97th Post |
JK this was the only one we saw that day I think the very heavy rains for days and the lush green grass made all the Game spread out with plenty to eat and drink. This is also quite rare, Oryx or Gemsbok but we saw a few more.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Fri Dec 13th, 2019 04:25 | 98th Post |
| Graham that is a superb image of the oryx. Those were rare when we were there. Surprised they havent been all hunted to extinction due to their fabulous horns. Look you even managed to get the tick picker to look at the camera.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Dec 15th, 2019 18:36 | 99th Post |
Scarlet-Chested Sunbird again but showing the flowers better for Robert
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Dec 15th, 2019 18:46 | 100th Post |
The Female has less dramatic colour!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Robert: Mon Dec 16th, 2019 01:57 | 101st Post |
| Wow Graham! That is amazing, lovely image. Thank you so much for thinking of me. I find the red/pink saturation or colouring of the male chest and the flowers seemingly odd, I would have expected the reverse...  I take it the flowers were pinkish/salmon, the red chest patch is amazingly saturated by comparison, showing no signs of shading under the throat.. as it seems to on the female. I wonder if visible spectrum fluorescence is coming into play here?
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by novicius: Mon Dec 16th, 2019 16:55 | 102nd Post |
| Are those chili-peppers?
____________________ Back in Danmark I do not use my equipment to make photo`s .. I take photo`s to use my equipment The better I become at photography,the better my camera gets. |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Dec 16th, 2019 18:41 | 103rd Post |
The flowers are Aloe Plants very common wild flowers in East and Southern Africa.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Dec 18th, 2019 18:33 | 104th Post |
Better late than never? One of my last Kenya pixs.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Robert: Thu Dec 19th, 2019 03:44 | 105th Post |
| What a character! The audacity of this small creature is captured to perfection. Diversity of this thread is amazing, thank you so much Graham. Identifying the Aloe plant was a great help, thanks.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Iain: Thu Dec 19th, 2019 09:44 | 106th Post |
| Looks like you came back with a good set of pictures even though it was a trip full of issues.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Dec 19th, 2019 10:52 | 107th Post |
Thanks Ian am still sorting them this is thrush sized: Isabelline Wheatear in the very wet Samburu Reserve on the Ewaso Nyiro River that had major floods two day before we were there and again a week later!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Dec 19th, 2019 13:34 | 108th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:Thanks Ian am still sorting them this is thrush sized: Isabelline Wheatear in the very wet Samburu Reserve on the Ewaso Nyiro River that had major floods two day before we were there and again a week later!Superb
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Dec 19th, 2019 14:15 | 109th Post |
These are very common: Bulbul about our Blackbird size.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Thu Dec 19th, 2019 14:40 | 110th Post |
| Superb detail in all these images. Did you use the 80-400 AFS with TCx1.4 all the time?
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Dec 19th, 2019 18:28 | 111th Post |
| Yes 95% of the time but I did use the 18-140mm for a few record shots. The 80-400 is pin sharp and the x1.4 does not downgrade images either.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Fri Dec 20th, 2019 04:33 | 112th Post |
| The new 80-400 AFS has really improved over the older version. The results are very impressive.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Fri Dec 20th, 2019 05:20 | 113th Post |
| Correction for above the brown bird is NOT a Wheatear but is infact my Kenya top birdman friend said it is a Pink Breasted Lark. Also the Bulbul pix was shot with the 80-400 at 400mm plus x1.4 hand held 1/320 sec with VR f13 ISO 1000 on the D500 single point focus AF-C.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Dec 23rd, 2019 12:17 | 114th Post |
Still sorting my pictures but this is one for Eric he liked the Mousebirds!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Dec 23rd, 2019 13:08 | 115th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:Still sorting my pictures but this is one for Eric he liked the Mousebirds!
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Dec 26th, 2019 07:30 | 116th Post |
| One interesting fact was I lost rather too many pixs with focus not quite there with the D500 on this trip. I put it down to bouncing about in the Landrover then as we stopped shoot too quickly in case bird flew but several times when bird sat for me shots 2 and 3 also not quite there but lot of time with all the rain light was very poor and low in contrast. Done test since I am back and the D850 single point focus sq is much smaller than the one in the D500 and looking back on past shoots I always get much better focus with very few failures from D850. Checking previous D500 shoots also not nearly as good but works better with 25 focus points as used on the last Mousebird pix above? As I said on another posting I think the D850 is all you need!!! Perhaps my D500 needs looking at will phone Nikon after the NY. Happy Christmas to all my Nikon Friends!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Thu Dec 26th, 2019 09:08 | 117th Post |
| In my opinion the fact that the D500 focus points are all over the whole screen make it more suitable for bird and action photography. The D850 has a smaller area in center of the screen for its set of focus points but it is very quick (actually it is the same AF unit in both cameras - apparently). Take a look at this comparison. https://www.apotelyt.com/compare-camera/nikon-d500-vs-nikon-d850 The advantages the D850 has are numerous but not always is it ahead. This is interesting and talks about real life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOoDSedqWD0 I agree with almost everything he says in the video.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Fri Dec 27th, 2019 06:27 | 118th Post |
| Thanks for those two links JK both well worth reading. I value both of cameras and they do all I need to do and have no wish to make any changes. The only problem is that like all of us I still have plenty to learn and bird photography is not easy.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Dec 27th, 2019 08:25 | 119th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:One interesting fact was I lost rather too many pixs with focus not quite there with the D500 on this trip. I put it down to bouncing about in the Landrover then as we stopped shoot too quickly in case bird flew but several times when bird sat for me shots 2 and 3 also not quite there but lot of time with all the rain light was very poor and low in contrast. Done test since I am back and the D850 single point focus sq is much smaller than the one in the D500 and looking back on past shoots I always get much better focus with very few failures from D850. Checking previous D500 shoots also not nearly as good but works better with 25 focus points as used on the last Mousebird pix above? As I said on another posting I think the D850 is all you need!!! Perhaps my D500 needs looking at will phone Nikon after the NY.Isnt the single point square size adjustable?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Dec 27th, 2019 09:35 | 120th Post |
| Edit: on reflection, it's the Panasonic that enables you to configure the focus square size. I set it down to almost a dot ....and Jan couldn't find where it was on the screen
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Fri Dec 27th, 2019 12:39 | 121st Post |
Eric wrote:Edit: on reflection, it's the Panasonic that enables you to configure the focus square size. I set it down to almost a dot ....and Jan couldn't find where it was on the screen And the Fuji.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Fri Dec 27th, 2019 14:06 | 122nd Post |
| I have checked both cameras and can see no way of altering the size of the focus point sq. As all else failed I have read both instruction books again and can find no more info on this. Eric give it a go you may see something I have missed.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Fri Dec 27th, 2019 15:13 | 123rd Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:I have checked both cameras and can see no way of altering the size of the focus point sq. As all else failed I have read both instruction books again and can find no more info on this. Eric give it a go you may see something I have missed.The focus points on DSLRs from Nikon is single sized. I dont think there are any DSLRs that have resizeable focus points. Nikon Z6/7 have adjustable focus point size. On a Nikon the best we can do is use the Dynamic AF feature that aggregates focus points to make a large area that is focus dedicated but in this situation a single point is in control of the grouped points.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Dec 27th, 2019 16:50 | 124th Post |
jk wrote:The focus points on DSLRs from Nikon is single sized.I wonder if the common denominator, all being mirrorless, has a bearing on this feature? As for DSLR, I know that the metering system uses the focus point to measure the exposure. I wonder if the reverse is true ...viz that spot metering considers a sharper focus point? Too much to ask.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Sat Dec 28th, 2019 02:56 | 125th Post |
| Mirrorless is the common technology feature and this technology has AF points on the sensor which may or may not be linked to the use for exposure.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Iain: Sun Dec 29th, 2019 09:13 | 126th Post |
| You can do it no the Olympus but again it's mirrorless.
|
| Posted by Eric: Sun Dec 29th, 2019 13:34 | 127th Post |
Another advantage of mirrorless. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Sun Dec 29th, 2019 17:07 | 128th Post |
Eric wrote:Another advantage of mirrorless.Yep, it is the future but it is still improving whilst DSLRs are more or less as as advanced as they can be.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by blackfox: Mon Dec 30th, 2019 04:09 | 129th Post |
| on the Panasonic you can alter the size of the focus point by simply pulling it together on the rear screen ,I don't think you can on the Olympus ? but the smallest focus point is the one I use 95% of the time as it sees through foliage etc but still works for b.i.f
|
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Dec 30th, 2019 05:36 | 130th Post |
I agree with your remarks about smaller focus point Jeff gets through foliage that was problem with the D500 in Kenya focus point is quite large compared with the D850 and I find I have far less missed shots with focus problems with the D850. Perhaps I took the wrong camera with me? This is a typical focus failure, the picture is also a medium 50% crop . Good light was holding the camera well and sitting in the Landrover. I took three and this was the best! D500: 1/400 sec f22 ISO 500 80-400mm at 400mm plus x1.4 single focus point and it was held steadly on the birds head! The D850 with the same lens and setting would have been spot on but the larger focus spot on the D500 made focus slightly forward as you can see. At the time in very bright light looking at rear screen pix looked good it was only later on laptop that I could see the problem.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Dec 30th, 2019 06:10 | 131st Post |
| There should have been nothing blocking the focus point here but light was poor. Same camera and lens set-up 1/250 sec VR on f14 ISO 1250, ( with VR I have taken plenty of sharp pix at 1/125 even 1/60 sec).
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Dec 31st, 2019 04:56 | 132nd Post |
Took x4 of this and went back last night to chek the NEF Raw files and I had not looked at this the last and only sharp one!!!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Tue Dec 31st, 2019 05:43 | 133rd Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:There should have been nothing blocking the focus point here but light was poor. Same camera and lens set-up 1/250 sec VR on f14 ISO 1250, ( with VR I have taken plenty of sharp pix at 1/125 even 1/60 sec).But if the subject is moving then it wont get better unless you increase shutter speed. Birds twitch at a very high rate so we dont see it at the time but it causes the image to be unsharp.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Dec 31st, 2019 07:55 | 134th Post |
| Thanks for that I do know but brain must not have been working on that shot. I do try to keep 1/400 sec or bettrer but then in poor light with long lenses DOF is a problem, I think photography of small birds with long lenses is as hard as it gets!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Tue Dec 31st, 2019 08:55 | 135th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:Thanks for that I do know but brain must not have been working on that shot. I do try to keep 1/400 sec or bettrer but then in poor light with long lenses DOF is a problem, I think photography of small birds with long lenses is as hard as it gets! I have enough sharp but not sharp enough images! Sometimes you think it is you shaking but frequently it is the animal/bird twitching as they decide whether to stay or go!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Dec 31st, 2019 15:32 | 136th Post |
| Maybe this should be in another topic but it probably fits well here as it's about knowing your camera....even after years of using one daily. Today I decided to be a Twitcher. Mainly because my birding friend Mike had lost a good friend over Christmas and was very down. I thought he needed a kickstart. So we went after the Eastern Yellow Wagtail that's been seen on the 'muck piles' a few miles from where we live. The bird was quite obliging given 50-60 telescopes and cameras pointed at it. But it was still some distance from our viewpoint....needing heavy cropping even with the 500mm lens. I had heeded Graham's comments about the size of the focus point and left the D500 at home. The D850 is a lovely camera but has been idle for many occasions when birds were on the menu....and that's the point. As you will be aware, the D850, like many DSLRs has memory banks to store settings. A B C D. I had configured mine ...A (general photography) Birding (yes I had renamed that one!) C (Landscapes) D (experimental area to avoid messing with the other predefined ones) Which memory did I use? Of course .....D How many times must I tell myself to double check key settings before starting out? In fairness it was a spur of the moment rushed departure...but no excuses. For some reason I had left D memory bank set on medium file size JPEGs!...and AFS...and some other bizarre long forgotten settings that I must have been playing with when I first bought the camera. So in the short period allowed (when trying to get birds to pose) I took a complete set of poorly exposed, oversaturated and mainly out of focus low res JPEGs. Quite a successful morning really. This is the best I could manage.  Still Mike had his spirits lifted and he (kindly) says this shot is a good enough record for him to use. On a more pertinent point... Although I accept that the smaller size focus square on the D850 may well be better at zeroing in on smaller birds heads, as Graham says. There is a limit. Even with the D850 this bird was barely bigger than the square itself! I am sure it does make a difference within a certain subject to camera distance range. But at the end of the day, there is no substitute for getting the bird big enough in the frame to enable the focus square to be able to separate the head from the rest of the bird.....whether that's by closer proximity or greater magnification.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Tue Dec 31st, 2019 20:02 | 137th Post |
| Thats not bad Eric with you so far away. The thing about the Kenya birds and working mostly out of the Landrover I was able to get quite close. The little Pigmy Falcon is only 8 ins high smaller than our blackbird and the shot above was only about a 50% crop lens at 400mm plus x1.4 on the D500. Happy NY all I must go to bed!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Jan 1st, 2020 05:27 | 138th Post |
| This is the full frame shot with 500mm plus 1.4x tc....720mm. It shows the size, or lack, of the problem. It's interesting though, seeing the bird favour this disturbed area of poo in this photo. Iit never occurred to me at the time, to ask one of the people with a tripod to poke the legs around in the poo nearer to us. The bird may have come closer to explore the disturbed area. Field craft eh?  This was also take on the Northside of the poo pile....colder light but more realistic than on the winter sun bathed Southside of the poo. Unfortunately 1/160 on the North, 1/1000 on the South meant I ventured to the south.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Jan 1st, 2020 05:31 | 139th Post |
I've backed off some of the low winter sun to make it a tad more natural....
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Jan 1st, 2020 11:09 | 140th Post |
| That is very good Eric for such a large blow up this is the major plus of the D850. Lower noise than the D500 in poor light, if you underexpose a bit and need to correct in post.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Jan 1st, 2020 12:29 | 141st Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:That is very good Eric for such a large blow up this is the major plus of the D850. Lower noise than the D500 in poor light, if you underexpose a bit and need to correct in post.Yes I was impressed with the potential detail. (The detail of the plane at 30000feet was good ) I think my major error was inadvertently using mid resolution, higher compressed jpeg rather than raw. No idea why I left the camera memory bank like that in the first place??? I am kicking myself I didn't switch to the correctly set B memory bank like I do on the D500. Very annoyed with myself. I gave all the photos to Mike and he's posted one on Facebook and had many Likes (I do hate this culture!) Apparently one of his 'Followers' (no comment) is a well known local bird photographer who said it was “one of the best he's seen taken to date'. Which was nice for Mike .....but it doesn't say a lot for the standards of some of the so called bird photographers. He would probably explode if he saw some of Jeff's photos. Anyway I've learnt a valuable lesson and am more than ever convinced to sell one of the cameras to avoid me getting muddled up again. I just need to be 100% settled with the so called limitations of the D850.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Wed Jan 1st, 2020 12:59 | 142nd Post |
| Limitations of the D850?.... All I can find is the lack of the ability to move the focus point to each and every part of the screen. What cameras do you have? Best not try to track mine but they are all set up almost identically. Currently running at 1 Canon, 11 Nikons, 8 Fujis!! Unless I have miscounted! I think I will need to buy a stable soon. Today I was playing with my Fuji XE1 that I had converted to Full Spectrum in February 2018. Havent had a chance to use it due to all the stuff that has been happening in 2018/2019. However today is 2020 and I start a new playtime. Wow. The IR output seems very good in Auto WB and if I use a Custom WB that is set for normal vision output it is pretty near spot on.
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| Posted by Eric: Wed Jan 1st, 2020 14:38 | 143rd Post |
jk wrote:Limitations of the D850?....Well it was the videos you posted that raised the cons for the D850....FOR WILDLIFE....compared to the D500. Viz The D850 has a louder shutter, the buffer is slower to clear, the FPS are less....I forget the rest. That said, I am disinclined to consider these as enough of an issue. For me the positives out way these. After all 'I am' slower than both these cameras.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Wed Jan 1st, 2020 15:23 | 144th Post |
Eric wrote:Well it was the videos you posted that raised the cons for the D850....FOR WILDLIFE....compared to the D500.Yes the video highlighted some differences but I have to say that the D850 lacking a terabuffer hasnt really bothered me. The video in the camera, never used it in any of my cameras.
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| Posted by novicius: Thu Jan 2nd, 2020 18:28 | 145th Post |
| All great Photo`s !!
____________________ Back in Danmark I do not use my equipment to make photo`s .. I take photo`s to use my equipment The better I become at photography,the better my camera gets. |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Jan 9th, 2020 07:04 | 146th Post |
Long Tailed Cormorant in Nairobi National Park, 1/800 sec f13 ISO 800 Nikon D500 with Nikon AF-S 80-400mm lens at 400mm plus x1.4 extender
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Thu Jan 9th, 2020 08:30 | 147th Post |
| Well you keep finding more treasures from your limit number of taken photos, Graham.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Jan 9th, 2020 10:06 | 148th Post |
Bulbul was very common so here is another pix of one, 1/250 sec f14 ISO 1250 400mm plus x1.4
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Thu Jan 9th, 2020 18:05 | 149th Post |
This Grey Heron is back to noemal quality. Sorry bit of noise with last pix as it is blown-up and about 25% of frame but a good pix to show the bird with it's yellow bits.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Jan 12th, 2020 07:21 | 150th Post |
Male Ostrich, poor chap been a bit battered in the extreme rain storms.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Sun Jan 12th, 2020 12:43 | 151st Post |
| Still a good shot! Poor guy needs some sun.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Fri Jan 17th, 2020 10:47 | 152nd Post |
Still sorting Kenya images: This is a Blacksmith Lapwing in a riverbed.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Robert: Fri Jan 17th, 2020 11:28 | 153rd Post |
| Yet another beautiful picture of an unfamiliar bird, thank you Graham.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Jan 18th, 2020 10:47 | 154th Post |
Another pix of the White-Eyed Slatey Flycatcher still high ISO noise and big blow-up but better than previous one I posted.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Robert: Sat Jan 18th, 2020 14:46 | 155th Post |
| What noise? My eye is drawn to the bird as a picture, it sees no noise, the lichen on the branch and I think I can even see you reflected in the birds eye, have you tried blowing up (and reducing the contrast a bit) on the the birds eye? I think you might be surprised... If I examine the grain, yes there is texture but as a viewer of the picture I see only bird and branch, lovely, thank you for posting. The masters such as Turner have brush strokes in their pictures but your eye and brain are drawn to the image not the detail of the texture I think we get too hung up about suchlike, look at the whole, not the minutiae.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Jan 18th, 2020 16:40 | 156th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:Another pix of the White-Eyed Slatey Flycatcher still high ISO noise and big blow-up but better than previous one INice bird and a good record shot. I personally think it would benefit pictorially with a bit more space 'to breath' around it. I somehow feel such a small bird, bizarrely, intimidating .....especially when looking down on me.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Jan 18th, 2020 19:14 | 157th Post |
Whole pix warts and all for Eric!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Sun Jan 19th, 2020 04:40 | 158th Post |
| I prefer the full size, uncropped image (post157). The other cropped version is like from a bird spotters identification book that shows little context and environment. Each has their uses but my preference is for the uncropped.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Jan 19th, 2020 06:49 | 159th Post |
| JK and Eric are both right, I enlarged too much but was showing the quality and at high ISO D500 images can not be blown up as much as the same sized blow-up from a D850 image. With just a modest crop that image would still make a good quality A3+ print. That image was with the full 400mm plus x1.4 and like small birds in this country it would not let me get closer than this, even after sitting there for over 2 hours.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Jan 19th, 2020 15:36 | 160th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:JK and Eric are both right, I enlarged too much but was showing the quality and at high ISO D500 images can not be blown up as much as the same sized blow-up from a D850 image. With just a modest crop that image would still make a good quality A3+ print. That image was with the full 400mm plus x1.4 and like small birds in this country it would not let me get closer than this, even after sitting there for over 2 hours.I was just being picky.  This size of crop appeals to me.. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sun Jan 19th, 2020 19:04 | 161st Post |
| Thanks ERric that is spot on. Also thank you for info about Spain from Mike I thought we had picked a good place, perhaps next Dec "Graham in Spain?" it will be D850 and 500mm PF.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Jan 20th, 2020 05:28 | 162nd Post |
After Eric's and JK's good comments I had another go so hope this is better?
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Mon Jan 20th, 2020 05:45 | 163rd Post |
| Perfect. The removal of the head twig makes it perfect. The cropping now makes for a perfect natural frame.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Jan 20th, 2020 12:28 | 164th Post |
| Perfecto
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 08:02 | 165th Post |
The birds must know the crock did not want to eat them!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Eric: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 17:33 | 166th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote:The birds must know the crock did not want to eat them!That's a bit different to Titchfield Haven.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Wed Jan 22nd, 2020 18:12 | 167th Post |
| Well in a few years with climate change you might see these arrive!
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Jan 27th, 2020 10:50 | 168th Post |
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Aug 3rd, 2020 05:53 | 169th Post |
Another pix of the 2 Yellow-Billed storks with their Croc "Friend?". See cartoon below from Telegraph last week. Click here to comment on this image.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Aug 3rd, 2020 05:57 | 170th Post |
I hope the Telegraph will forgive me for sharing this with you all. I sent the Editor a letter enclosing my Stork pix but they did not publish it but were kind enough to send me an e-mail thanking me. Click here to comment on this image.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Mon Aug 3rd, 2020 06:41 | 171st Post |
| Great shot Graham. Many people would have raised the saturation so the flowers were redder but then the bird would be darker and wrong. I really like the last image but the penultimate one is good as well..
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