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| RAW processing questions | Rating: 
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| Posted by glocke12: Mon Dec 23rd, 2013 08:02 | 1st Post |
| Currently my workflow is as follows: RAW+JEPG FINE imported into aperture with no sharpening or much of anything done to the RAW images in aperture Images are culled..unwanted ones are deleted, determine which jpegs are usable, and which would benefit from RAW processing. RAW images are than processed entirely in the NIK software suite as follows: RAW presharpener->viveza->color-efex pro-> than nik output sharpener Now, this has worked fine for me up till now, but I've been looking and playing with the trial versions of some of the other RAW processors out there, namely DXO-optics pro 9, CNX2, and photo ninja. This is sort of where my confusion starts. What exactly would I be gaining by incorporating one of these into my workflow?? It looks like if anything it would be adding some steps as I would first have to import into aperture, than open up the files in DXO/PNP/CN2, than export them back into aperture as TIFF files where I could continue working on them in the nik suite (and I also assume this means I would no longer be needing to use nik raw presharpener). FWIW, i did notice some difference in RAW images in PNP/DXO compared to how aperture processed them. DXO seemed to do a pretty good job of sharpening RAW files, but I couldn't help but notice the same file in PNP seems slightly less sharp, but PNP seemed to handle highlights slightly better.
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| Posted by jk: Mon Dec 23rd, 2013 09:02 | 2nd Post |
| Well you are starting to make life complex as with Aperture you can manage the images as well process them. If you start to use multiple RAW processors then in my opinion you need to ask yourself. 1. Why are you doing this if your current/previous workflow worked for you. 2. You need to decide which RAW processor is your primary one and try to process as much through that as possible. The other RAW processors are for those images that dont work in your primary processor. I consider that RAW processors are like chemical developers. Not every film (image) and every set of lighting conditions works well with the same developer concentration/time/temperature combination. This is why many B&W photographers used different developers and different temperatures and times in each developer to get the right 'accutance'. I use AfterShot Pro (ASP)(previously Bibble Pro) and Capture Pro v7.1.6 (CP) as my main processors. I use two RAW processors as I cannot process Fuji XTrans RAW files through AfterShot Pro. I am tending towards CP as I use my Fuji cameras more than my Nikons these days but I have 12 years experience with Bibble/ASP so I find that really easy to use. I also have PhotoNinja, LightZone and Aperture. I use Lightroom5 for all my image cataloguing but very occasionally my image editing but I dont find the interface good for me. I do ALL my photo editing (except simple spot healing/cloning which I do in ASP or CP) in Photoshop CS6 as I feel I know it best but I find the ACR interface processing very slow compared to ASP.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Dec 23rd, 2013 11:32 | 3rd Post |
glocke12 wrote:Currently my workflow is as follows: It's customary to make sharpening the last processing stage you do in the image editing software (I do break this rule for a particular subject I shoot). So I am not sure why you are using the raw converter to sharpen....unless of course you have no intention of doing further processing on the file....in which case, why not just use the jpeg? I agree with JK, in that the more convoluted you make image processing, the more it takes over. I use an older ACR into CS3 ( lot faster than into CS6 Jonathan) for all my work apart from Fuji, which HAS to go through the latest ACR into CS6. While there may be subtle differences between how raw converters work I find the ACR route to give the least unadulterated neutral file....leaving more scope for YOUR adjustments.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by TomOC: Mon Dec 23rd, 2013 15:30 | 4th Post |
| I agree with Eric that you should sharpen last...especially if you are using an app that is non-destructive that would allow you to go back and save the earlier work and resharpen differently for a new output version. JK points out that there were problems dealing with Fuji Xtrans files when they were new...that situation caused me to look outside the workflow I had used and tweaked for almost 20 years - photoshop and adobe ACR. I tried CapturePro7 (very very good) and a whole list of standalone raw processors and finally came back to Adobe using Lightroom 5 as my main catalog and initial processor. It took a bit of unlearning to relearn a new workflow, but I'm really really happy with what I now have. BTW, you can use lightroom to start processing, doing your raw conversion there and a bit of tweaking then use the EditIn command to reopen the file in other apps like NIK ones and save them back into Lightroom so they are all cataloged together. The last comment I would make is why bother with the jpg file? At least if you move to Lightroom, you just don't need it. If you want to set a preset on each file as you import the raw, you can do that (and all you are doing it adding a small set of instructions to the file on what you want it to look like rather than another whole image file to deal with)...saves space and confusion later. Not to mention that there are literally thousands of support blogs and videos to get up to speed on Lightroom...Adobe is the company we all love to hate, but I have to admit that Lightroom is a great deal for photographers... Cheers and welcome to the forum Tom
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Dec 23rd, 2013 16:29 | 5th Post |
TomOC wrote:I agree with Eric that you should sharpen last...especially if you are using an app that is non-destructive that would allow you to go back and save the earlier work and resharpen differently for a new output version. Your continued approbation of Lightroom, Tom, has started me to rethink my intransigence with regard to CS3. I am not that impressed with the performance of CS6 ...sure it has new bells and whistles, but I think they slow it down. But I have a new computer coming after Christmas and apart from seeing if CS6 improves, I am increasingly inclined to instal Lightroom and start the learning process. Time for a change. :thumbsup:
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by richw: Mon Dec 23rd, 2013 17:57 | 6th Post |
TomOC wrote:I agree with Eric that you should sharpen last...especially if you are using an app that is non-destructive that would allow you to go back and save the earlier work and resharpen differently for a new output version. Exactly my thoughts and process. I also use Nik and lately OnOne from Lightroom. I have read that you should sharpen for 'Capture' at the beginning of the process (in the Raw converter) and then for output. Lightroom does the natively with the Sharpen slider for Capture and then in it's various output modes as required (most obvious in Export). If I used Aperture I think I would try and use it the same way as Lightroom, doing 99% of the work in there and only going elsewhere for a special effect or if wasn't getting the job done for some reason - however I would suspect it normally will.
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| Posted by glocke12: Tue Dec 24th, 2013 04:53 | 7th Post |
TomOC wrote:I agree with Eric that you should sharpen last I actually only just started using the NIK raw presharpener this past summer after someone running a seminar at a local camera shop advocated its use. At the time I was skeptical of his advice, so did some digging around on the web and found this: http://www.ppmag.com/web-exclusives/2009/01/review-nik-sharpener-pro-30.html The consensus of those who study sharpening is that a two-step sharpening process with both input sharpening and device-specific output sharpening yields the optimally sharpened image. Digital capture inherently has softness due to the low-pass filter that's typically used to fight moir©. Reversing this loss of sharpness in the capture process is one of the first tasks to perform in image processing, and Sharpener Pro 3.0 offers a RAW Presharpener to do just that. Note that this is intended for use on RAW images that have not been sharpened in-camera or with a RAW converter. JPEG images already have some sharpening applied, so they do not require this step. This input sharpening process is perfect for actions and/or batch processing, and can be easily incorporated into your workflow without adversely affecting processing time. Also, don't most raw converters do some initial pre-sharpening upon importation ? I know aperture does, you have to manually go in and disable this feature if you do not want it. As to why I bother with the in camera JPEG, if after importing the JPEG looks satisfactory I go with that and don't bother with RAW processing, but that is only about 10% of the time. While the lightroom workflow described sounds appealing, I think at this point I am too entrenched in Aperture as a DAM to switch to anything else. I have thousands of photos across multiple aperture libraries at the moment. As for the other raw converters, I'll have to play around with them and see what I think. Capture one sounds good, but photo ninja is out. That one just does not run that well on my macbookpro. Thanks for the welcome also..I was actually a member on the old forum (nikond1.net i think it was)..
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