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| D400 rumours again | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by jk: Fri Jun 15th, 2012 03:31 | 1st Post |
| There are more rumours of the D400 coming out. See here. http://nikonrumors.com/2012/06/13/some-fresh-nikon-d400-rumors.aspx/ I tend to agree that it makes little sense to release 4 new DX cameras so maybe something needs to give. I havent a clue which one of the potential four I would drop as they all have relevance so maybe Nikon will indeeed release four new cameras. For me the D400 has come too late. The information if not the camera should have been released at the same time as the D800. The D400 with 24MP will be a pleaser as the file size is smaller than the D800 but will have the same denaity of pixels so it will require good glass and careful use.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Fri Jun 15th, 2012 04:23 | 2nd Post |
jk wrote:There are more rumours of the D400 coming out. The glass will be slightly less demanding JK, especially if you are using FX glass because you are using the centre portion of the image circle which tends to be better and less prone to edge drop off. I haven't quite figured out if it is more or less prone to shake? Too early and not woken properly yet. My gut instinct says it will be more prone to shake *per pixel* because of the Focal length multiplication factor of 1.5. Whether the overall image will suffer is a moot point when it's resized to 1024 pixels on the long edge.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by richw: Fri Jun 15th, 2012 05:21 | 3rd Post |
| I think the D200 was iconic in it's day, the D300 less so, but I can't see Nikon moving away from this slot. I must say I am expecting the D400 to be a great camera.
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| Posted by jk: Fri Jun 15th, 2012 14:05 | 4th Post |
| Well I dont think I will be getting one. I have all the DSLRs I need/want/desire with the D3S, D3 and D800. What I am sure about is that it will be a very good camera if it is as good as the D800. 
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by TomOC: Fri Jun 15th, 2012 14:07 | 5th Post |
| Boy, I think the d300s was groundbreakingly GREAT Cleaned up all the shortcomings of the D200 (not that many) and has been a real workhorse for me... Especially live view button... Tom
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by jk: Fri Jun 15th, 2012 14:57 | 6th Post |
| I was frequently disappointed with results from the D300 but this was probably because I was judging it against the D3 and D700.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by TomOC: Fri Jun 15th, 2012 15:24 | 7th Post |
| Well, it was certainly not the camera to use for indoor architectural photography. But it was fantastic with telephoto lenses
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by richw: Fri Jun 15th, 2012 18:07 | 8th Post |
| I thought the D200 was 98% of the camera that the D2x was, and possible a better model than the D2h but I think there has always been clear water between the D3 series and the D300. I have no doubt that the D300 (particularly the 's') was a big step forward over the D200. Perhaps it's because I own a D200 and have a real soft spot for it, most of my photos where taken with it, but I never felt that the D300 was quite as good a value proposition.
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| Posted by Eric: Fri Jun 15th, 2012 18:51 | 9th Post |
richw wrote: I thought the D200 was 98% of the camera that the D2x was, and possible a better model than the D2h but I think there has always been clear water between the D3 series and the D300. I have no doubt that the D300 (particularly the 's') was a big step forward over the D200.I am with Tom on this one. Yes the D200 is a nice camera and (as you say) 98% of the D2X. But I didnt think much of the D2X in the first place...it was a stop gap till Nikon got the FX sensor working....and sorted out noise! Yes there is clear water between D3 and D300 ...but it is still a better performer than the D200 in several ways. Its this fact that has delayed the arrival of its successor for so long.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by richw: Sat Jun 16th, 2012 03:23 | 10th Post |
Eric wrote:richw wrote:I thought the D200 was 98% of the camera that the D2x was, and possible a better model than the D2h but I think there has always been clear water between the D3 series and the D300. I have no doubt that the D300 (particularly the 's') was a big step forward over the D200.I am with Tom on this one. Well I never had a D300 so that may explain some of my feeling! No doubt the D300 is a better camera, but compared to it's peer group at the time (not just Nikon, but Canon et al) I still believe the D200 stood apart in a way the D300 didn't. I'm not for one second saying it was a better camera but give that it was a whole generation earlier, at the time it came out I think it stood out from the crowd as a great buy in a way the 300 never managed. But however you rate the two models I think this niche is an important one for Nikon and I hope they bring out a D400 that really knocks our socks off.
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| Posted by jk: Sat Jun 16th, 2012 03:39 | 11th Post |
| I think that having had the D200 and D300 the later model is better but not by much. I think the D300s is better than the D300 without a doubt and that they tweaked the sensor performance. I enjoyed using the D2X in the studio but in low light the D200 beat it. I am very pleased where I am today, as I believe I have reached the place where I was in my film days with a F3, F100, and Hasselblad 2000FCW in 1998, with my digital cameras D800, D3, D3S and D700. Plus now I have the Fuji X100 and XPro1 it is like having a Leica M5 series camera as well these are so pocketable and low weight but high quality. We are totally spoilt for choice these days!
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Jun 16th, 2012 05:27 | 12th Post |
richw wrote:Eric wrote: I think you are overlooking that one of the reasons the D200 and D2X were so close was they shared the same DX sensor. This wasn't the case with the D3 and D300. The D300 DX sensor was never going to approach its FX big brother in image performance. It was the D700 that was 98% of the D3. I was on record at the time of its launch, saying that the D300 had reached such a level that, with the advent of FX, It could be the last pro DX body for a long time. With the tweaks of the D300S I believe that has been the case. It remains to be seen what the D400 can bring to the image and performance party. My fear is that its developments will be merely movie biased.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Sat Jun 16th, 2012 05:29 | 13th Post |
jk wrote:I think that having had the D200 and D300 the later model is better but not by much. I think the D300s is better than the D300 without a doubt and that they tweaked the sensor performance. Is the battery life any better with the XPro? I find the X100 can be easily drained!
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by richw: Sat Jun 16th, 2012 08:13 | 14th Post |
Eric wrote:
Eric, I totally agree but explaining why something is doesn't negate it. At the end of the day it's just my personal opinion, and not on anything important! I remember your comments when the D300 came out and it certainly has been a long wait but I remain hopeful for a strong D400 offering. (not that I plan to get one, but I would like to see it regardless).
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| Posted by richw: Sat Jun 16th, 2012 08:15 | 15th Post |
Eric wrote:jk wrote: Me too!
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| Posted by Eric: Sat Jun 16th, 2012 14:41 | 16th Post |
richw wrote:Eric wrote: I did convert my D200 to IR rather thn the D300. Maybe that's a subliminal agreement with you
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Sun Jun 17th, 2012 03:44 | 17th Post |
Eric wrote:jk wrote: Yes the XP1 battery is definitely more longer lasting. The battery in my X100 lasts about half the time of the XP1. I have a SanDisk pouch for CF cards attached to my X100 strap that holds a spare battery. I dont need to do this with the XP1.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Sun Jun 17th, 2012 03:48 | 18th Post |
| I didnt remember that the D200 and D2X shared the same sensor. That would explain the 'strength' of the D200 as a camera.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Robert: Sun Jun 17th, 2012 09:14 | 19th Post |
| And it's weaknesses? Although the D200 may sort of 'share' the sensor I don't think it's the exact same setup. I researched it carefully at the time I bought my D200's and I seem to remember the D200 took advantage of some (slight) advances in technology, I don't care to revisit that research! I know I was dithering between used D2x and new D200, after careful research the D200 won. As far as I am concerned the D200 is a perfectly capable camera which may have some limitations in comparison with the current range but those limitations don't impinge too much on my photographs. Most of my photography is done in good light and the output is destined for small prints or on screen viewing. Therefor a D1 would do 90% of what I need but the D1 is a bit limited in it's tonal range in my opinion and the D200 user interface is better.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Jun 17th, 2012 10:29 | 20th Post |
Robert wrote:And it's weaknesses? My reference to 'same sensor' was more that they were both DX rather than they were the exact same sensor. It's by belief that coming from the same period they would be very close....certainly closer than the D3 FX sensor and the D300 DX version. But you raise an important point. Many of the improvements over the D1 > D3 phase are of benefit to all. But if your photography doesn't require high iso, you don't print mega large formats or have no interest in movies, the D2 series are perfectly acceptable cameras. We have said this many times of late...DSLRs have reached a development plateau in terms of mainstream photography. For many of us it's already as good as it NEEDS to get.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by TomOC: Sun Jun 17th, 2012 14:22 | 21st Post |
| To prove Eric's point, just look back at some of your D1 prints. I have one that is a 5x6" piece of wallpaper. Could I do better today...sure. Am I still happy with the print? Yup. My dog in this fight is to continue to love and respect the DX sensor. Hey, I LOVE my D3, but I also love my D300s for telephoto shots, for using a relatively light weight DX zoom as a walkaround lens and for the beating it's taken bouncing around on the floor of my car for the last 3 years. (as suits, substitute D200 for D300). I may change my tune if the D800e ever arrives, and take up cropping instead of DX, but some how, i doubt it. So bring on the D400... Tom
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by richw: Sun Jun 17th, 2012 20:41 | 22nd Post |
Eric wrote:
Totally agree, only thing that would tempt me to change my current kit against the performance of the latest and greatest would be lighter, smaller, and even then in a lot of circumstances I like the bigger body.
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| Posted by jk: Mon Aug 6th, 2012 06:12 | 23rd Post |
| I'm truly thinking that the D400 is lost in space.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by TomOC: Mon Aug 6th, 2012 15:02 | 24th Post |
| Eric- Battery life on xpro is much better (and battery is twice the size )Xpro is better in every way except no silent shutter or 1/2000th flash and doesn't fit in your pocket. Kind of like d300x vs D3 Both good for what they are designed for LOL
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by Iain: Tue Aug 7th, 2012 09:11 | 25th Post |
jk wrote:I'm truly thinking that the D400 is lost in space. Me too. :byebye:
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| Posted by ArcticRick: Sat Aug 11th, 2012 13:02 | 26th Post |
| Im so annoyed by it all , I just want something that shoots at higher ISO than my D200 .
____________________ Writer/Gear Reviewer @http://www.theloadoutroom.com |
| Posted by Ray Ninness: Sun Aug 12th, 2012 08:55 | 27th Post |
ArcticRick wrote: Im so annoyed by it all , I just want something that shoots at higher ISO than my D200 .The D3 really kicked the High ISO Low Noise can down the road, and obsoleted just about every camera in the field. Especially every Nikon body that came before it.. The day I bought my first D700 98% of a D3, perhaps, but what an amazing beast, was the day that my D2x went into the vault to stay !!! And I was in love with that box up until then.. For the work I am doing now, and it isn't much, the D700's more then cover the task, and are still amazing low light Kings... The D2x still could produce wonderful images, but the very limiting ISO range, only realized once I had the D700, was the death of that box!!! Rick reduce your operating pain, get a newer body with the extended High ISo range and watch you images improve on the spot!!! :makemyday:
____________________ Ray Ninness F8Photos.com Bedford, New Hampshire USA |
| Posted by Squarerigger: Mon Aug 13th, 2012 15:47 | 28th Post |
| Today's post on http://www.bythom.com about his take on Nikons new view of DX models is a little disturbing. It seems very short sighted for businesses to not take into account the desires of the consumer. There seems to be several folks on this site who are interested in the D400. Are we that out of the norm?
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Aug 14th, 2012 04:00 | 29th Post |
Ray Ninness wrote: ArcticRick wrote:I can remember the 'relief' ...yes relief... I got when I took the first shots with the D3.Im so annoyed by it all , I just want something that shoots at higher ISO than my D200 .The D3 really kicked the High ISO Low Noise can down the road, and obsoleted just about every camera in the field. Especially every Nikon body that came before it.. For the first time I was able to stop chimping to check the image recorded as I saw it. Thats not to say previous cameras didnt create great pictures, but somehow the D3 relaxed the process. If you needed 2000 ISO there wasnt the nagging doubt it would be noisy. You didnt have to consider lens /camera settings to diminish noise or preplan noise reducing processing....which although successful added more work. The larger pixels gave greater clarity in the images. The whole process of picture making became more relaxed. The D3 just reduced the anxst. Sure the D3S moved the goalposts higher...and the D4 even more. But I said then and I repeat now... "The D3 is as good as it NEEDS to get for 95% of shooters". I havent used a D700. But I am willing to bet the IQ and handling will be close to the D3 but at a lower price. So I fully support Ray's recommendation to just get a D700 and reduce the pain. The only thing a new DX body is guaranteed to bring is 1.5x magnification. Just get yourself a Kenko TC converter and you have it already.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Ed Matusik: Tue Aug 14th, 2012 09:19 | 30th Post |
| I was of the same opinion as Gary regarding the anticipated announcement of a new DX camera; however, with the extended focusing upgrades for the D4 and D800 series, I started leaning toward a 2X extender with my 200-400 and then a crop. The high image quality of the new cameras influenced me more so than the DX-factor. - EdM
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| Posted by jk: Tue Aug 14th, 2012 17:52 | 31st Post |
Ed Matusik wrote:I was of the same opinion as Gary regarding the anticipated announcement of a new DX camera; however, with the extended focusing upgrades for the D4 and D800 series, I started leaning toward a 2X extender with my 200-400 and then a crop. The high image quality of the new cameras influenced me more so than the DX-factor. - EdM Yes I agree. With Nikon raising the quality stakes all the time and with new models coming out that do the same but for less money then really waiting for a DX camera makes little sense unless you are a long telephoto user. Compare the price and specs of the D3 and D800 the D3 is still a great camera but the D800 brings a lot of extras for a lesser price. The only read difference is the build quality ofthe D3 is much more solid.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Tue Aug 14th, 2012 17:55 | 32nd Post |
Eric wrote:Ray Ninness wrote:ArcticRick wrote:I can remember the 'relief' ...yes relief... I got when I took the first shots with the D3.Im so annoyed by it all , I just want something that shoots at higher ISO than my D200 .The D3 really kicked the High ISO Low Noise can down the road, and obsoleted just about every camera in the field. Especially every Nikon body that came before it.. I agree the D3 and D3s are fine cameras to use and producing great results is so much easier than with D800 or a DX camera. I dont know why but I feel more confident wth the D3 than the D800.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by jk: Sat Oct 27th, 2012 17:33 | 33rd Post |
| OK I'm not a betting person but...... I'd lay money that there will be a DX camera release in the next month. I would think that it will be a D7000 or D300S replacement.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Constable: Sun Oct 28th, 2012 01:37 | 34th Post |
| Nikonrumors seems to think the same. Ed
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| Posted by blackfox: Sun Oct 28th, 2012 03:03 | 35th Post |
| hmmm i read the answers on here with interest ,two points the d7000 handles noise very well and will shoot at (my findings and usage) up to iso 3200 without noise becoming a major issue ,my d300s will only work well at up to iso 1600 ,i already use a 1.7 or a 1.4 t.c with either camera so a newer dx body that will shoot and focus as fast as a d300 and handle noise as well as a d7000 would be more than welcome . but i just wish that nikon in its infinite wisdom would bring out a lens to equal the canon 400mm 5.6 ,its still my favourite all time lens ,lightweight ,fast and remarkably cheap .it seems theres no ideal win win situation for nikon as we all want different things for different reasons ,so best thing to do is sit back and wait .
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| Posted by Peter_LO: Sun Oct 28th, 2012 07:35 | 36th Post |
| I wish Nikon won't "update" the AF mode switch as it did with D4,D800(s) and D600. Sometimes a very high FPS isn't as important as how quickly the photographer can handle the camera.
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| Posted by jk: Sun Oct 28th, 2012 11:34 | 37th Post |
blackfox wrote: hmmm i read the answers on here with interest ,two points the d7000 handles noise very well and will shoot at (my findings and usage) up to iso 3200 without noise becoming a major issue ,my d300s will only work well at up to iso 1600 ,i already use a 1.7 or a 1.4 t.c with either camera so a newer dx body that will shoot and focus as fast as a d300 and handle noise as well as a d7000 would be more than welcome . Re: 400mm 5.6 They probably think that the Nikon 70-200 AFS VR or 80-200 AFD with a x2 converter gives you the same so wont go there. I think a 400mm f4.0 prime is a better option but f5.6 would be lighter and cheaper as you say. Is anything Nikon cheap? 
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by blackfox: Sun Oct 28th, 2012 15:40 | 38th Post |
| yes jonathan i use the 300mm f4 with t/c's as you know and generally quality is good ,probably up there with the canon 400 5.6 ,but it just irks me that nikon think that everyone can afford a 5 grand 500mm lens ,there is a huge market out there for a moderately priced dx long zoom of around f4 to f5.6 ,no need for image stabiliser if they make it light and sturdy enough ,its only a pipe dream but if any nikon r&d guys do read these forums ,your missing a huge slice of a potential market ,one that long term would sell more camera bodies
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| Posted by Eric: Sun Oct 28th, 2012 17:16 | 39th Post |
jk wrote:blackfox wrote:hmmm i read the answers on here with interest ,two points the d7000 handles noise very well and will shoot at (my findings and usage) up to iso 3200 without noise becoming a major issue ,my d300s will only work well at up to iso 1600 ,i already use a 1.7 or a 1.4 t.c with either camera so a newer dx body that will shoot and focus as fast as a d300 and handle noise as well as a d7000 would be more than welcome . Then they would be wrong. Their new AFS 2x TC on the 80-200AFS falls short of the quality of a prime 400mm by a long chalk. In fact short of sigma prime let alone a Nikon! I've sold my new 2x TC! I still maintain that whilst a 1.4x TC works (can't comment on 1.7x) a 2x converter is a bridge too far. Amplification of inherent lens faults come more to the fore.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by blackfox: Sun Oct 28th, 2012 18:31 | 40th Post |
| i base mine on using the d7000 ,300mm f4 ,1.7tc giving me a useable 500mm eric ,it works exceedingly well .however coupling it with the d300s i am noticing shortfalls in quality ,the 1.4 being the better option quality wise .so is this sensor based/or possibly iso or just the poor light at the moment .time will tell as i,m still learning the 300. for instance i have always found that auto iso handles anything thrown at it on the 7000 but not that good on the 300 a fixed iso working better ,possibly i,m trying to push the camera/sensor further than it can reach .going to be a interesting winter though
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| Posted by jk: Sun Oct 28th, 2012 19:13 | 41st Post |
| Have you tried the Nikon or Sigma 80-400 zooms? I know max aperture is only f5.6 but Ed Matusik manages to get very nice deer and bear pictures with his. Ed has the Nikon and I have a Sigma version. It works but it isnt as good as my 400 f2.8
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by blackfox: Mon Oct 29th, 2012 03:25 | 42nd Post |
| tried a nikon vr version ,trouble is its the old screw drive type thus extremely slow to focus so out of the running for what i do jk ,had a sigma 150-500mm and couldn't achieve the i.q or focus speed needed ,between myself and my son we have had several sigma zooms and not got the quality from them thats needed . i have thought about the 120-400 sigma a few times but i'm wary as per above . this shot taken with the 300mm nikon f4 afs plus 1.7tc hand held ,on the run as i saw it coming and with the d7000 .thats the performance i,m after 
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| Posted by Eric: Mon Oct 29th, 2012 07:45 | 43rd Post |
blackfox wrote: i base mine on using the d7000 ,300mm f4 ,1.7tc giving me a useable 500mm eric ,it works exceedingly well .however coupling it with the d300s i am noticing shortfalls in quality ,the 1.4 being the better option quality wise .so is this sensor based/or possibly iso or just the poor light at the moment .time will tell as i,m still learning the 300.Sure the 'lesser x' TCs are ok with primes. Its when you try to couple 2x Tcs with zooms you start to see the 'cracks'. I had hoped to get a '160-400' range out of my 80-200AFS but it didnt come close to my 300 and 500 primes. Should have known better.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Mon Oct 29th, 2012 18:08 | 44th Post |
| Hmmm. According to NikonRumors the replacement camera to be announced this year is the D5200. Seems like Nikon have forgotten how old the D300S is.
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by Eric: Mon Oct 29th, 2012 18:34 | 45th Post |
jk wrote:Hmmm. According to NikonRumors the replacement camera to be announced this year is the D5200. Has anyone cropped the D800 images to DX size and compared them to the D300? I just wonder if the megapixels on the D800 (and maybe D4) obviate the need for a DX pro body? Sure it's nice to have a DX body alongside an FX body to have the best of both worlds. But for most situations the extra pixels of the latest FX bodies are superfluous unless you are doing mega size prints ....or cropping!
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Constable: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 02:12 | 46th Post |
| Hi Eric Me! I use DX crop (real in camera or in PP) with both the 800E and the D4. For me the only possible reason to use the DX format now is the light weight lenses. This is an 800E shot with the 300 f4 and 1.7 TC. This combination is my walkaround for more than 5 km (with the V1 in the backpack for an efctive 800 with the 300). Shorter distances it is the 300 f 2.8 with TC 1.7 and staggering distance is the 400 f 2.8. I kind of agree with you about the TC2 III but I do not know why. I hardly ever use it, but I have no real negative experience. And with the D4 there are no AF problems at f8. Maybe I need to make an effort. BY the way, lovely shots of France in the other thread. Ed Attachment: 800_4479.jpg (Downloaded 38 times)
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| Posted by blackfox: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 04:03 | 47th Post |
| hi ed do you think or know if the quality obtained by using your d800 in dx crop mode is better or is it the same as just using a dx cropped camera to start with such as the d7000 . this is the point that bewilders me ,i know you get extra lens reach from your camera using dx mode ,but would the likes of myself that just does mainly long range wildlife gain anything by moving up a notch or should i stay with the d7000 .
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| Posted by Eric: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 04:44 | 48th Post |
blackfox wrote: hi ed do you think or know if the quality obtained by using your d800 in dx crop mode is better or is it the same as just using a dx cropped camera to start with such as the d7000 . From my experience the D3 cropped to D300 size was as good, if not better. I reasoned it was purely down to bigger pixels in the D3...as they both have 12mp. But in the case of the D800 and D7000 there is a difference in pixel numbers that is likely to offset this advantage to some degree. I bet the D4 and D7000 behave the same as the D3/D300 pair.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 05:00 | 49th Post |
Constable wrote: Hi EricDo I understand correctly from that, the V1 takes AFS lenses? edit : AH silly me...you use the FTadapter?
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Constable: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 07:08 | 50th Post |
| Eric The D4 cropped is very definitely better than the D7000 (but I disliked the D7000 so much that an etch-a-sletch would have been better). I *feel* that the cropped D800 is better than the D7000. I suspect that the real question is not whether you need to move DX --> FX but rather whether you have a broad range of subjects where both FX and DX bodies are predicated. If the answer is "yes", then an FX body used in crop mode when needed is the best solution. Of course, that argument assumes that you are not taking a backup body with you ! Ed
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| Posted by jk: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 08:20 | 51st Post |
Eric wrote: jk wrote:That is a good point. I can do a test. Do you want an in-camera crop to DX size from D800 (4800x3200 pixels)= 15.4MP. Or a 12mP central portion as a comparison of how much better it is than a D300?.
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| Posted by Eric: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 09:46 | 52nd Post |
Constable wrote: ... The only back up body I need these days is the one to carry the gear!
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Eric: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 09:53 | 53rd Post |
jk wrote: Eric wrote:Thinking about this...it needs to be compared to the D7000 (ie the latest iteration of DX sensor) not the D300. And I think Ed answered that point already.jk wrote:That is a good point. I can do a test. Comparing it to the D300 only confirms that cropping is as good as the status quo. It doesnt take into consideration possible improvements in DX sensors. A D4/600 would pick up from where the D7000 left off.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 10:51 | 54th Post |
| Very interesting. I cant believe how 'cropped' the image is from a DX sensor!! I'm getting so used to the FX sensor. Image taken with 17-35 f2.8 AFS on a D800. Here is a full sensor image with the DX crop overlaid.  Here is the full FX image.  Here is a DX crop out of the FX image. 
____________________ Still learning after all these years! https://nikondslr.uk/gallery_view.php?user=2&folderid=none |
| Posted by blackfox: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 11:53 | 55th Post |
| interesting stuff keep it going .this is what this forum should be about imho
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| Posted by Eric: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 18:59 | 56th Post |
| It would be interesting to compile an 'IQ ranking'. For example options to achieve 800mm say. 1. D4 + 800mm prime ? 2. D800 + 800mm prime ? 3. ......Then feed in TCs with shorter primes, DX bodies and cropping in order of IQ. It should be possible to plot IQ against cost. Then we could decide the most cost effective route to get the minimum quality level we want.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Constable: Tue Oct 30th, 2012 19:13 | 57th Post |
OK Eric. So are you going to pony up for the 800 prime? :makemyday:Ed
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| Posted by jk: Wed Oct 31st, 2012 04:57 | 58th Post |
| Well it wont be me who buys one. My lens collection is complete. 
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| Posted by Eric: Wed Oct 31st, 2012 06:00 | 59th Post |
Constable wrote: OK Eric. So are you going to pony up for the 800 prime?  Drat! Expt fails at first hurdle. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Wed Oct 31st, 2012 12:31 | 60th Post |
Go on you know you deserve it. Profit write down 
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| Posted by Constable: Wed Oct 31st, 2012 16:24 | 61st Post |
| I can try the following at the weekend if the weather is half way decent (and if I get myself prepared for a trip to China on Tuesday) 1. D4 + 400mm f 2.8 ? 2. D800 + 400mm f 2.8 ? 3. D4 and D800 with 200 mm f2 and TC 2 III 4. D4 and D800 with 300 mm f2 and TC 1.7 II (I don't have a 1.4) i can probably borrow a D7000 to try with the above combination "It should be possible to plot IQ against cost." Err ... how? The cost axis is easy. What do we use as the objective IQ parameter? I can think of lots of possibilities, all of which involve playing with lots of expensive toys and which actually say nothing about the subjective viewing experience! Ed
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| Posted by Eric: Wed Oct 31st, 2012 16:47 | 62nd Post |
Constable wrote:I can try the following at the weekend if the weather is half way decent (and if I get myself prepared for a trip to China on Tuesday) I meant nothing more scientific than a simple ranking...that one 'looks' better than that one.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Constable: Wed Oct 31st, 2012 17:04 | 63rd Post |
| Oh, I see. You mean pixel peeking! OK ... Not really, but I suspect that we end up in a subjective area. 
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| Posted by Eric: Wed Oct 31st, 2012 17:48 | 64th Post |
Constable wrote:Oh, I see. You mean pixel peeking! Yup
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Wed Oct 31st, 2012 18:20 | 65th Post |
| I find the DPReview shoot outs and tests very tedious and of little use in real life. Things like flare resistance and contrast seem to be untested items. These are of more use to the average person than the ability to resolve xyz lines in a chart in a studio.
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| Posted by Eric: Wed Oct 31st, 2012 19:05 | 66th Post |
| I suppose if I was guessing then I might say for 600mm, the following IQ ranking might apply. The cost of each combo is shown and I have ranked the costs. 600 + D4............................................ = 11400.......1 600 + D800....................................... = 7900.......7 400 + D7000.................................... = 6500......8 400 + D4 + TC1.4............................. = 10700.......2 400 + D800 + TC1.4....................... = 8200.....5 300 + D4 + TC1.4 + crop................ = 8700.....3 300 + D800 + TC1.4 + crop........... = 6200.......9 300 + D7000 + crop ....................... = 4500......11 300 + D4 + TC2.................................. = 8300.....4 300 + D800 + TC2............................. = 6200.......9 200 + D7000 + TC2.......................... = 4200.......12 200 + D4 + TC2 + crop...................... = 8000......6 200 + D800 + TC2 + crop............... = 5700......10 From this list I would like to know ...do the D7000 + 200 + tc2 or D7000 + 300 + crop have significantly poorer IQ than the D4 & D800 combos? Because, despite the simplicity of using just an FX sensor and cropping ...the finance doesn't stack up???
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by blackfox: Wed Oct 31st, 2012 19:37 | 67th Post |
| the only really fair way would be to do identical crops of a set area and see what each combo is capable of .it would need to take into account changing light values though .a awesome task really
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| Posted by jk: Thu Nov 1st, 2012 04:53 | 68th Post |
| When you bring in different bodies and their cost it really makes the situation very complex. I know that ultimately it does get driven by purchase cost otherwise there is no way to use! As an initial pass it may be easier to consider the best way to achieve a certain focal length. I did this before purchasing my 400mm f2.8 two years ago. I wanted to get to 600/800mm f5.6 whilst only considering the Nikon 200 f2.0, 300 f2.8, 400 f2.8 and Sigma 300-800 f5.6 zoom. The most effective cost solution was to get the Nikon 400mm f2.8, I think that the Nikon 200mm f2.0 is a great contender but using a x3 converter to get to 600mm was I thought pushing the envelope to its limit. The Kenko DG300 Plus x3 converter that I have is OK but its results when compared with images from the prime lens look distinctly soft. The whole situation is made more complex by the D4 and D800 being able to use f8 max aperture and still be able to AF, with other cameras this is limited to f5.6
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| Posted by Eric: Thu Nov 1st, 2012 06:55 | 69th Post |
jk wrote: When you bring in different bodies and their cost it really makes the situation very complex. What it highlights to me is the significant cost required to get 600mm. 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by Iain: Sun Nov 4th, 2012 11:27 | 70th Post |
This was one of the reasons I went to Canon as there 400 f5.6 gives a cheap way to 600 + mm Nikon need a lens like that.
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| Posted by blackfox: Sun Nov 4th, 2012 14:50 | 71st Post |
| don't quiet see how your getting that iain ,the 400mm -f.5.6 will not except under exceptional lighting conditions take a t/c and even if you tape off the first three pins the results are at best putting it mildly crap . if your taking into account your crop factor as written that will give you the 600mm but you can do that with nikon anyway .yes nikon could definetly do with a lens in the same genre as the canon 400 but something will turn up eventually
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| Posted by jk: Sun Nov 4th, 2012 15:54 | 72nd Post |
| Nikon of course have the 200-400 f4 AFS which with a Kenko DG300 Pro x 1.4 will give you a 560mm f5.6 Of course the lash is on the purchase of the lens!
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| Posted by Squarerigger: Mon Nov 5th, 2012 07:15 | 73rd Post |
blackfox wrote:don't quiet see how your getting that iain ,the 400mm -f.5.6 will not except under exceptional lighting conditions take a t/c and even if you tape off the first three pins the results are at best putting it mildly crap . What is accomplished by taping the first three pins blackfox?
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by Iain: Mon Nov 5th, 2012 10:12 | 74th Post |
blackfox wrote:don't quiet see how your getting that iain ,the 400mm -f.5.6 will not except under exceptional lighting conditions take a t/c and even if you tape off the first three pins the results are at best putting it mildly crap . The 400 f5.6 with a 1.4 tc on a 1D body works fine and is good even in poor light. It's not D3 class at high iso but it works.
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| Posted by Iain: Mon Nov 5th, 2012 10:15 | 75th Post |
| Gary, if you tape the first three pins on a Canon tc it fools the camera into thinking the tc is not there so it will focus on bodies the will not focus at f8.
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| Posted by blackfox: Mon Nov 5th, 2012 10:33 | 76th Post |
 ah didn't realise you had a 1d ian
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| Posted by Squarerigger: Mon Nov 5th, 2012 10:43 | 77th Post |
Iain wrote:Gary, if you tape the first three pins on a Canon tc it fools the camera into thinking the tc is not there so it will focus on bodies the will not focus at f8. Thanks Ian. Humans can be very imaginative can't they? How's life with your new system? Miss your birding shots.
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by jk: Mon Nov 5th, 2012 11:07 | 78th Post |
Iain wrote: Gary, if you tape the first three pins on a Canon tc it fools the camera into thinking the tc is not there so it will focus on bodies the will not focus at f8. Very clever. I wonder if the Nikons can also be fooled in a similar way.
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| Posted by Iain: Tue Nov 6th, 2012 12:28 | 79th Post |
Squarerigger wrote:Iain wrote: Just for you Gary :thumbsup: Attachment: Black tailed Godwit01.jpg (Downloaded 19 times)
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| Posted by Squarerigger: Tue Nov 6th, 2012 12:34 | 80th Post |
Iain wrote:Squarerigger wrote: Thanks Iain What a great shot. I could look at bird photos all day long.
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by jk: Tue Nov 6th, 2012 14:44 | 81st Post |
| Nice shot Iain. If you clone out the partially hidden bird this will make it into an outstanding shot IMHO. It is very good anyway!
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| Posted by jk: Tue Nov 27th, 2012 16:56 | 82nd Post |
| Latest thoughts in the D400/D7000 replacement saga. http://nikonrumors.com/2012/11/27/lets-talk-about-2013.aspx/#more-49214 This seems an emminently reasonable theory but I would hate to try and double guess Nikon. For wide angle lens users FX is great but if you like telephotos then DX is an easier way to get the longer lenses for less weight. However since most users are in the 24-105mm FX range then it becomes an issue of cost and current lenses versus buying more rather than a real forcing of DX v FX choice. The more I consider this the more I like my Fuji XPro1 and a 18-55 zoom for small size, low weight and high quality. If it had DSLR AF speed of focus I would be with real problems!!
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| Posted by Eric: Tue Nov 27th, 2012 19:05 | 83rd Post |
jk wrote:Latest thoughts in the D400/D7000 replacement saga. As I said earlier...make the D7000 focus as fast as the D300 ( or latest pro models ) and they wouldn't need a D400! 
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Wed Nov 28th, 2012 15:25 | 84th Post |
Eric wrote:jk wrote: That would need a new AF unit like the one found in the D800 or D4.
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| Posted by Eric: Thu Nov 29th, 2012 12:17 | 85th Post |
jk wrote: Eric wrote:Exactly... just a component swap.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by blackfox: Thu Nov 29th, 2012 18:15 | 86th Post |
| nikon rumors suggests a forthcoming price drop on the d800 hopefully it will carry on down the line ,i still think there seeing how far they can push this new 24mp sensor i.e the d5200 via feedback and once thats sorted something either d7100 or d400 will follow . you can bet theres something out there being tested already its just not been spotted yet :fishing:
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| Posted by Robert: Fri Nov 30th, 2012 03:43 | 87th Post |
Eric wrote:jk wrote:Eric wrote:Exactly... just a component swap. But Nikon won't put a top component in a consumer body, it cheapens the top camera and is wasted in the consumer camera. (In their eyes)
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Eric: Fri Nov 30th, 2012 14:05 | 88th Post |
Robert wrote: Eric wrote:Why so? There are many comparable performance factors in the D200 v D2X and D300 v D3 which suggests prior art.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by jk: Fri Nov 30th, 2012 16:45 | 89th Post |
| I'd say that critical item for any camera is the AF unit and it should be an item that is not skimped on. In reality if the image isnt sharp it is half way to waste bin!
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| Posted by blackfox: Fri Dec 7th, 2012 19:38 | 90th Post |
| hmmm the new d5200 launch has been put back .unforseen problems perhaps??
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| Posted by Robert: Fri Dec 7th, 2012 23:18 | 91st Post |
| Like not enough D5100's sold?
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Jan 5th, 2013 06:23 | 92nd Post |
| I still miss my D300 and 18-20 lens so am watching this page with interest. D800 is working well and producing outstanding quality but bag full of large lenses is heavy to carry on overseas holiday trips. I have looked at the 24-120 f4 as a holiday lens for D800 but the £800 UK retail price is almost what you could get a D7000 and standard lens for! I shall keep my money in the bank for now! Happy NY to you all!
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by jk: Sat Jan 5th, 2013 06:55 | 93rd Post |
| Hi Graham. Happy New Year. The next set of announcements should start to emerge on Monday 7th Jan at the CES show in Las Vegas. There is much talk of the D7000 replacement and also maybe even a Nikon1 V3 - heavens the V2 has only just been released. I havent heard anything specific about the D400 but 2013 must be the year for it!!
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Jan 5th, 2013 12:21 | 94th Post |
| If they do bring out D400 I hope they will not get too silly with 24Mp, 14 MP would be quite enough for a DX camera. Go for first class D800 class auto focus and keep price below £1000 in UK?
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by Robert: Sat Jan 5th, 2013 12:59 | 95th Post |
| On the nail Graham. My thoughts exactly.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by blackfox: Sat Jan 5th, 2013 13:40 | 96th Post |
| dunno on that the d7000 is above that already ,i think they will probably (insert hopefully ) go for 24mp already in use ,newer processor ,51 point af ,faster focus and larger ,quicker buffer .anything less than this you might as well buy a d5200
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| Posted by jk: Sat Jan 5th, 2013 14:17 | 97th Post |
Graham Whistler wrote: If they do bring out D400 I hope they will not get too silly with 24Mp, 14 MP would be quite enough for a DX camera. Go for first class D800 class auto focus and keep price below £1000 in UK? Well all my information from the rumour mill points to a 24MP camera. It's as densely packed with photosites as the D800 sensor. In fact slightly more so!! 20MP would be more than sufficient in my opinion. Nikon need to start to differentiate the FX and DX cameras more by keeping the pixel density the same for both sized sensors. I think this will achieve more sales for them.
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| Posted by Robert: Sat Jan 5th, 2013 14:47 | 98th Post |
In which case I will stick with my trusty D200 with it's inferior 12Mb sensor. It may be noisy in poor lighting but I don't take many photo's in poor lighting and in any case I rather the coa**e noise of the D200 to the horrid fine gritty noise which seems the norm from the D7000 sensor.  I may look round for one of these junk D3's which presuamably will being chucked in skips due to their low pixel density. My lads scour skips, I will tell them to watch out for D3's...
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Sat Jan 5th, 2013 15:28 | 99th Post |
Robert wrote: In which case I will stick with my trusty D200 with it's inferior 12Mb sensor. It may be noisy in poor lighting but I don't take many photo's in poor lighting and in any case I rather the coa**e noise of the D200 to the horrid fine gritty noise which seems the norm from the D7000 sensor.I'll warn you Robert when I am going to dump my D3 but it wont be any time this year. I'm actually waiting for the D7000 to go end of life so I can replace my D70 that goes in my underwater housing as I want more than 6MP and it needs to be a small enough body so only a D80, D90, or D7000 will do. If it doesnt happen soon then I will need to get a D90 camera. Come on Nikon release the D7000 replacement!
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| Posted by Robert: Sat Jan 5th, 2013 15:55 | 100th Post |
| My D3100 is very handy little body, I have used it to record the Marlin rebuild, and some of the images will be finding their way into a National Kit car mag on the 10th Jan but for what I consider serious stuff I still reach for the D200. I took a couple of hundered pix of infants performing their nativity play just before Christmas in mixed lighting with no flash, using both bodies, most of the best ones are from the D200.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Sun Jan 6th, 2013 08:17 | 101st Post |
| It's about using the camera skilfully rather than just blasting away with the latest kit. Having the latest and best kit is nice but I still love using my D3S as I know how to do everything I want instinctively. The D800 has so much more and its all in Menus and things, which takes me away from my comfort zone. I hate having to fiddle on/in the menus. I rather have a dedicated button.
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| Posted by blackfox: Sun Jan 6th, 2013 10:57 | 102nd Post |
| agreed up to a point jonathan ,i have the d7000 and its a lovely camera to use but i tend to pick up the d300s for everyday use .at this moment in time i have lent the 7000 to my lad but in todays failing light i was wishing i had the 7000 with me ,i have just deleted every shot i took today apart from one i managed to grab with the V1 as i arrived on site to the only five minutes of sunshine all day .i will post it later but its something i have been discussing with eric i.e the need /ability to fill the frame completely with a subject . so in the end its what you use the camera for that counts so wheres my d400 ????? p.s i have also just spent a hour trying to explain to the wife why i need 4 cameras ,that according to her just take pictures ,wheres my blood pressure tablets when you need them 
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| Posted by jk: Sun Jan 6th, 2013 11:17 | 103rd Post |
| I agree Jeff. The ability to fill the frame decides whether you need to crop further. This makes a big difference. I remember one sports picture editor saying to me get the image tight enough so there is only room to put a single line of text around the image. This meant he could use the image for Spot the Ball competitions without worrying!
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| Posted by jk: Fri May 31st, 2013 17:36 | 104th Post |
| More new rumours about the D400. http://photographylife.com/nikon-d400-is-definitely-coming#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=nikon-d400-is-definitely-coming
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| Posted by Robert: Fri May 31st, 2013 17:58 | 105th Post |
| Very interesting JK, could still be a while off yet though... Not understanding why they won'y release it before the Canon 7D?
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Fri May 31st, 2013 18:24 | 106th Post |
| Marketing tricks I guess. I can wait. I am not desperate and at this stage will wait and get exactly what I want rather than compromise on a D7100. The D7100 is very nice but as Jeff has pointed out the buffer is too small for such a high MP camera and I want the 10 pin connector.
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| Posted by Judith: Sat Jun 1st, 2013 11:43 | 107th Post |
At last! It sounds like it's a case of when, not if, now. I want one but need time to save up so don't mind waiting a bit longer. 
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| Posted by TomOC: Sat Jun 1st, 2013 14:26 | 108th Post |
| I'm perfectly happy using my D300s for all tele work...so it's up to Nikon to make me unhappy with it I guess I'm hoping they will - I love it but I've been using is now for longer (and more shots) than any camera since the D1
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by jk: Sat Jun 1st, 2013 14:42 | 109th Post |
| Well since I found the issue I was having with the D300, doing bracketing without my knowledge, I have been more pleased with it but I really would like a few extra MP (16 or 24 probably) and also better Hi ISO so ultimately if offered then I would definitely get one.
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| Posted by TomOC: Sat Jun 1st, 2013 15:14 | 110th Post |
jk wrote:Well since I found the issue I was having with the D300, doing bracketing without my knowledge, I have been more pleased with it but I really would like a few extra MP (16 or 24 probably) and also better Hi ISO so ultimately if offered then I would definitely get one. Yeah, that would be nice...but how compelling. I think Eric is right that they may just turn the attention to video...yuck, I hadn't thought of that. Less noise is a LOT more compelling than more MP
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by jk: Sat Jun 1st, 2013 17:05 | 111th Post |
| I'd definitely settle for a 18MP but the current Nikon trend is seemingly 24MP so that is what I would expect. The next thing is to get better high ISO performance at 6400 ISO. After that I am saturated... I have m fast lenses in the range I want. I have all the cameras for my needs and jobs. Video what's that? What next ? Better technique and execution plus more opportunities!
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| Posted by TomOC: Sat Jun 1st, 2013 17:06 | 112th Post |
| Amen
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by TomOC: Sat Jun 1st, 2013 17:07 | 113th Post |
| Whoops. Add articulated LCD to list
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by jk: Sat Jun 1st, 2013 17:19 | 114th Post |
| Dont think that an articulated LCD will come in a Pro level camera. Too easily broken when used in everyday action.
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| Posted by Graham Whistler: Sat Jun 1st, 2013 18:43 | 115th Post |
| Here we go again! I too could be interested in a D400 provided it keeps no more than MP18. I think the market is getting flooded with too many cameras and not enough people interested in parting with cash. Times are hard so perhaps Nikon will hold off with D400 or even not bring it out.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by TomOC: Sat Jun 1st, 2013 19:38 | 116th Post |
| I'm with you, Graham...smaller MP count, larger pixels, lower noise !!! Not that the D300s is horrible given the 1.5x factor...
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by Eric: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013 15:29 | 117th Post |
| If the d7100 had better buffer, I suspect we wouldn't be having this conversation. Unless I misunderstand the situation it's the only thing that's keeping the D7100 from BEING the D400. Have being using the D7000 a fair amount last couple of weeks on tele work and have changed my opinion a tad on this older model. Although its still slow to acquire and shoot, compared to other pro and prosumer models, for 95% of the time it's perfectly acceptable. If the D7100 has improved in these areas I may well upgrade when I return home. I rarely use the buffer capacity anyway, so it's not an issue. If I am shooting subjects that demand better performance in this area....I use the D3.
____________________ Eric |
| Posted by TomOC: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013 15:41 | 118th Post |
| Eric- I really have never considered the 7000 or 7100 as I had the impression that the build was more like a D40 upgraded than a D300 substitute. Am I wrong? If is can take the weather in your side of the world, I probably should consider it
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by jk: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013 17:43 | 119th Post |
| I'd tend to agree with Eric but for me I need the buffer as I shoot sequences for my flamenco shoots and also I want the 10 pin interface as all my control accessories use this interface.
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| Posted by Doug: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013 19:33 | 120th Post |
TomOC wrote:Eric- I agree D~~ and D~~~~ cameras were always specced below D~ and D~~~ in a few important areas I'm not sure if this is still the case but compare Body materials Weatherproofing Buffer PC sync socket 10 pin remote socket Style of strap lugs Number of frames available in bracketing mode Viewfinder brightness Viewfinder percentage Separate af-on/ae-l buttons Number of customisable buttons Top LCD Style of viewfinder (circular on D~ models) Shutter rating Shutter release performance Shutter materials? That's just from memory so there might be a few more I think D600 is a bit of an anomaly here with several serious limitations including limited bracketing
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| Posted by TomOC: Sun Jun 2nd, 2013 19:59 | 121st Post |
Doug wrote:TomOC wrote: Doug- That list helps focus. As a group, they are probably not "worth" the extra price, but about half of them fit in the category of MUST HAVE if you are used to them. I'll now stick happily with the D300s unless there is a D400 to tempt me
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by TomOC: Mon Jun 3rd, 2013 01:11 | 122nd Post |
| Doug- That list is great. If you add it all up, they are not really "worth" the extra costs. OTOH, if you've really grown accustomed to them, they become essentials... Think I'll wait for a D400 or stick with what I have
____________________ Tom O'Connell -Lots of people talk to animals.... Not very many listen, though.... That's the problem. Benjamin Hoff, The Tao of Pooh |
| Posted by Robert: Mon Jun 3rd, 2013 03:26 | 123rd Post |
| Not owning a D7000 I am not really qualified to speak on this but Doug seems to have missed off the biggest gripe most D7000 owners have and that is the AF speed. Again without actually comparing the specs I was under the impression that the D7000 does have a metal body but I could be wrong? Another factor is the feel, I think the feel factor is very important. I have a little D3100 and although it has much higher resolution and arguably better high ISO capability than my D200, I consider it a snapshot almost 'throw away' camera compared with the D200 which I reach for to take any serious photographs. I find it very hard to hold still, whenever I hold the camera to my eye I seem to press buttons on the back with my nose because the camera is so narrow, I get nose grease all over the rear screen because there is no protector and no way of fitting a protector, the back screen is scratched because there is no protector. The one feature on the D7000 that I covert is the ability to lock to banks of user settings with a knob U1 and U2, That would avoid user stupidity like forgetting to reset manual colour balance and exposure bracketing to normal after use. Another one I set and forget is exposure delay and mirror up first which I use quite often to take longish exposures of flowers in shade on a tripod. That would be a real help because I don't use my cameras every day, and even if I did my memory isn't what it was. If I am concentrating on making the images I tend to forget the minor stuff like returning settings to normal.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Graham Whistler: Mon Jun 3rd, 2013 05:52 | 124th Post |
| I would not advise anybody with a D300 or D300S to trade then in for a D7100 the build quality is not nearly as good. I am now sorry I let my D300 go, it is a great camera.
____________________ Graham Whistler |
| Posted by blackfox: Mon Jun 3rd, 2013 12:13 | 125th Post |
| i very nearly bought a d5200 last week ,but having a hands on in the shop ,it literally felt "toy" although it has the electronics that give it a good pedigree .i would rather give up than be forced into having one .the d300s i love to use ,it has its limitations in the winter re-iso levels but in summer sun it just performs like a eye extension ,and everything falls to hand . i aquired a canon 1dmkii last week from my lad ,and although its a ex-top or the range canon model and has some super features it doesn't come anywhere near the d300s .the sparkle you get from nikons dynamic range is missing from canons .probably consign this one to a macro camera and for back up ,to good a price to let it leave the house !!!
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| Posted by jk: Mon Jun 3rd, 2013 14:24 | 126th Post |
blackfox wrote: i very nearly bought a d5200 last week ,but having a hands on in the shop ,it literally felt "toy" although it has the electronics that give it a good pedigree .i would rather give up than be forced into having one .the d300s i love to use ,it has its limitations in the winter re-iso levels but in summer sun it just performs like a eye extension ,and everything falls to hand . I also considered one of them as a replacement for the D300 but decided that I should just be patient (doesnt sound like me). However my D300 is my oldest camera that I use regularly on land so it is due for replacement or movement to the museum section.
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| Posted by jk: Mon Jun 3rd, 2013 14:26 | 127th Post |
Doug wrote: TomOC wrote:Definitely agree on the last comment else I would have bought one to replace the D3 or D700. It has all the right items except it lacks the build of a pro body and the 10 pin socket. To me if feels like a FF equivalent of the D7100.
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| Posted by Doug: Mon Jun 3rd, 2013 22:50 | 128th Post |
Robert wrote:Not owning a D7000 I am not really qualified to speak on this but Doug seems to have missed off the biggest gripe most D7000 owners have and that is the AF speed. Oops - but I did say it was a top of the head list...
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| Posted by Robert: Tue Jun 4th, 2013 03:49 | 129th Post |
| It's not a sacking matter Doug! Actually I think it was a very good list for 'top of the head', several things on there I didn't know about. To me the biggest gripe I have about these 'cheap' high resolution consumer bodies is the horrible, harsh, gritty noise in shadow areas, I have seen it time and again in images on here even at the low screen resolution we get online. On occasions when I have mentioned here I have been accused of pixel peeping??? So I have moved on since it doesn't affect me, I am happy with my antiquated D1x and D200. Of course it could be caused by the compression process used when the images are compressed when they hit the forum server software, but I don't think so because it doesn't happen with the larger pixel cameras. It has been said it's caused by post processing but I'm not so sure. My D3100 is just the same, even with NEF's straight from the camera. Looking in the shadow areas, instead of smooth, graduated shade it's a speckled gritty mixture of light and dark pixels mixed to produce the appropriate shade, instead of a smooth graduated area of the appropriately coloured pixels. I don't believe the shaded areas are outside the gamut of the sensor or the software because larger pixel cameras manage to produce smooth shaded areas despite their comparative brick sized pixels. Also it's not JPEG artefacts because it happens with untouched NEF's straight from the camera.
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| Posted by Eric: Tue Jun 4th, 2013 11:54 | 130th Post |
TomOC wrote:Eric- There's no doubt its smaller and lighter, weatherproof rather than waterproof. But I never subject my D3 or D300 or D200 to sustained weather conditions likely to really damage them.....do you? Having been working the D7000 and Fuji EX1 in the current German/Austrian torrential rain I have felt more comfortable wiping off the D7000 than the Fuji. Don't know the answer....but is the Fuji pro any better proofed than the D7000?
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| Posted by Eric: Tue Jun 4th, 2013 11:59 | 131st Post |
Robert wrote:It's not a sacking matter Doug! And yet we still use them? I just wonder if we protesteth too much over these less than perfect characteristics.? No...it's not as good as a D3/4, or newer Dxxx bodies. But sometimes its more about being fit for purpose...and for most people not selling their work, a Dxxxx maybe acceptable.
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| Posted by Doug: Tue Jun 4th, 2013 18:24 | 132nd Post |
Robert wrote:...Also it's not JPEG artefacts because it happens with untouched NEF's straight from the camera. Since we can never actually view the nef, I have to ask how are you viewing images. Typically it will be a jpeg preview. In the case of Lightroom, Aperture, iPhoto and other high end software it should be a damn good jpeg (updated each time a change is made) but other software might not be as good. Also, even with nefs, under exposure and subsequent brightening or opening of shadows will enhance nasties. Jpeg artifacts, created at export or upload, are another matter. Try exporting a Tiff and various full res Jpegs, then compare in photoshop. (Use 'arrange windows', match zoom (100%), then hold space and shift while click dragging to compare different areas) The Tiff will be free of compression artifacts and only show actual image nasties My expectation, An underexposed and brightened image will show nasties in the tiff. A well exposed image (unbrightened) won't show shadow nasties. The best available jpegs will be indistinguishable from the tiff. A good thing to try would be shooting a grey scale at a correct exposure (no gap at right edge of histogram and no, or very tiny amount of, clipping) and repeat with 3-4 stops less exposure (400iso is a good setting). Adjust the second image (using exposure slider) to plus 3 stops then export and compare tiffs and jpegs as described above. My expectation, Tiff AND Jpegs from image 2 will show shadow nasties compared to those from image 1.
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| Posted by Ed Matusik: Wed Jun 5th, 2013 17:36 | 133rd Post |
| I've got to say that since buying my D4, all else seems trivial. The D300 can't compare to the the capabilities of this camera. It will take a lot to make me buy another DX camera. - EdM P.S., the 2X nikon telextender(TC III)with the 200-400mm lens is spectacular.
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| Posted by Doug: Wed Jun 5th, 2013 18:09 | 134th Post |
Ed Matusik wrote:It will take a lot to make me buy another DX camera. - EdM I believe a your love of the D4 has little to do with DX v FX. I don't think we would ever see it, but a D4 with a DX sensor would be almost as great.
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| Posted by jk: Wed Jun 5th, 2013 18:18 | 135th Post |
Ed Matusik wrote:I've got to say that since buying my D4, all else seems trivial. The D300 can't compare to the the capabilities of this camera. It will take a lot to make me buy another DX camera. - EdM That is very interesting to hear you say that. I have long felt that FX suits me better but it is not easy to define why! As such I have considered buying a D600 but dont think it meets my desired specification for the general camera characteristics. I'd be interested to hear from Peter Lo in HK, as I know he has one, as to how it compares to a D3. The lack of a 10pin socket and improved AF seems like small differences until you consider the replacement of legacy interface electronics and accessories for the change from 10 pin to USB and the fact that the AF needs to match D3 characteristics or better! Then on top of that there is the consideration of long telephotos when DX and FX are considered.
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