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Z7 in testing.  Rate Topic 
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Posted by jk: Sun Oct 14th, 2018 06:20 1st Post
OK this is a placeholder for my next set of posts about the testing of my Z7 and 24-70 f4 lens.

1. Huge wind-up is the 24-70mm lens. It is the fact you have to twist it to make it extend to use it. This really annoys me. My Fuji X30 has this feature for compactness but I accept it in a tiny camera. Hate it in a FF camera. This lens will go asap or as soon as the pro version comes out next year!

2. The 24-70 is very sharp. Even wide open. OK so it does have some poitives.

3. Battery lasts but you need the EN-EH15b really. 200+ images and the battery read 3/4. Need to go test further. It may be lasting well as I was shooting HDR and 5 image sets. I need to test shoot to exhaustion of the battery. Allin good time. You can recharge the camera battery in camera via the USB-C cable.

4. The camera is very customisable.

5. Some of the control selection combos are different to previous Nikons. Get over it as it is a new and different camera.

6. The camera is lighter than the D850 but not as light as my XT2. Just a fact. It is solidly built so not an issue unless you want extreme lightness in which case get a smartphone with a decent camera.

7. I want more Z lenses.

8. I really must test the F2Z adapter but it seems to be great in that the lens performs exactly as on a standard DSLR.

9. Need to test the flash system. My Godox AD600 and AD360 with wireless controller will be a great testbed. I also have my SB800 set with me so I can definitely get HSS (high speed sync) or FP in Nikon parlance. I prefer the Godox setup though.

10. My Mac seems to be a bit spasmodic about seeing the Z7 when it is USB connected. The Z7 has the new USB-C connector. Need to get a longer cable as Nikon supply only a 1m cable.

11. I wont be using Adobe products for my RAW conversions due to the company strategy on perpetual licenses. I use CaptureOne Pro so I await an update with Z7 support but other RAW converters such as Lightzone, PhotoNinja v1.3.7, Nikon NX-D all work fine. Some are faster than others.
Results are important. I did some rough weather coastal HDR shots yesterday. Need to reduce file size so I can post here. I dont do gaudy HDR, I prefer a more natural look with wider dynamic range that is probably lost on screen!

12. There are three U settings slots. Nice.

13. Images are great and sharp.

14. Battery clones do NOT work. Well not for the EN-EH15 units I have.
These clones do work in my V1 and some on my D600, D800, D850. But the D850 is also picky!



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Posted by Robert: Sun Oct 14th, 2018 14:45 2nd Post
Thanks for that JK, one of the principle things I want to know is whether the viewfinder does magnify the image if required and if it does, how is it actuated. This would be the first thing I would check out if or when I get my mitts on one.

I realise the rear screen magnifies but I have heard mentioned 'in passing' about viewfinder magnification. I have looked in the user manual but can't find reference to it.



____________________
Robert.


Posted by Eric: Sun Oct 14th, 2018 15:10 3rd Post
Robert wrote:
Thanks for that JK, one of the principle things I want to know is whether the viewfinder does magnify the image if required and if it does, how is it actuated. This would be the first thing I would check out if or when I get my mitts on one.

I realise the rear screen magnifies but I have heard mentioned 'in passing' about viewfinder magnification. I have looked in the user manual but can't find reference to it.
The LUMIX has a function that magnifies an area round the focus point. Personally I think it's a waste because it just zooms in on the sensor image and as a consequence the inherant relative coa**eness of the viewscreen is merely amplified rendering the enlarged area...less clear!o.O



____________________
Eric


Posted by Eric: Sun Oct 14th, 2018 15:11 4th Post
jk wrote:
OK this is a placeholder for my next set of posts about the testing of my Z7 and 24-70 f4 lens.

1. Huge wind-up is the 24-70mm lens. It is the fact you have to twist it to make it extend to use it. This really annoys me. My Fuji X30 has this feature for compactness but I accept it in a tiny camera. Hate it in a FF camera. This lens will go asap or as soon as the pro version comes out next year!

2. The 24-70 is very sharp. Even wide open. OK so it does have some poitives.

3. Battery lasts but you need the EN-EH15b really. 200+ images and the battery read 3/4. Need to go test further. It may be lasting well as I was shooting HDR and 5 image sets. I need to test shoot to exhaustion of the battery. Allin good time. You can recharge the camera battery in camera via the USB-C cable.

4. The camera is very customisable.

5. Some of the control selection combos are different to previous Nikons. Get over it as it is a new and different camera.

6. The camera is lighter than the D850 but not as light as my XT2. Just a fact. It is solidly built so not an issue unless you want extreme lightness in which case get a smartphone with a decent camera.

7. I want more Z lenses.

8. I really must test the F2Z adapter but it seems to be great in that the lens performs exactly as on a standard DSLR.

9. Need to test the flash system. My Godox AD600 and AD360 with wireless controller will be a great testbed. I also have my SB800 set with me so I can definitely get HSS (high speed sync) or FP in Nikon parlance. I prefer the Godox setup though.

10. My Mac seems to be a bit spasmodic about seeing the Z7 when it is USB connected. The Z7 has the new USB-C connector. Need to get a longer cable as Nikon supply only a 1m cable.

11. I wont be using Adobe products for my RAW conversions due to the company strategy on perpetual licenses. I use CaptureOne Pro so I await an update with Z7 support but other RAW converters such as Lightzone, PhotoNinja v1.3.7, Nikon NX-D all work fine. Some are faster than others.
Results are important. I did some rough weather coastal HDR shots yesterday. Need to reduce file size so I can post here. I dont do gaudy HDR, I prefer a more natural look with wider dynamic range that is probably lost on screen!

12. There are three U settings slots. Nice.

13. Images are great and sharp.

14. Battery clones do NOT work. Well not for the EN-EH15 units I have.
These clones do work in my V1 and some on my D600, D800, D850. But the D850 is also picky!
Jonathan....can you set the AF-On button under the thumb to JUST do focusing and take that function off the shutter button?



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Eric


Posted by Robert: Sun Oct 14th, 2018 15:32 5th Post
Eric wrote:
The LUMIX has a function that magnifies an area round the focus point. Personally I think it's a waste because it just zooms in on the sensor image and as a consequence the inherant relative coa**eness of the viewscreen is merely amplified rendering the enlarged area...less clear!o.O
No, No, no! That would be silly, for the reason you mention.

I mean the same type of magnification which you get on the rear screen! Digital zoom.

To me that would be sensible and invaluable to check focus before an exposure. After all the 'viewfinder' is really a second, very small, rear screen viewed via a pentaprism, with a little magnification/diopter correction.

The alternative in many cases is to make a trial exposure to check focus, zoom in on the required detail on the rear screen and adjust accordingly. I appreciate the screens can't be examined with a magnifier glass (loupe) but there seems to me there is no reason why the image can't be zoomed electronically right up to 1:1 pixel for pixel.



____________________
Robert.


Posted by Eric: Sun Oct 14th, 2018 16:03 6th Post
Robert wrote:
Eric wrote:
The LUMIX has a function that magnifies an area round the focus point. Personally I think it's a waste because it just zooms in on the sensor image and as a consequence the inherant relative coa**eness of the viewscreen is merely amplified rendering the enlarged area...less clear!o.O
No, No, no! That would be silly, for the reason you mention.

I mean the same type of magnification which you get on the rear screen! Digital zoom.



To me that would be sensible and invaluable to check focus before an exposure. After all the 'viewfinder' is really a second, very small, rear screen viewed via a pentaprism, with a little magnification/diopter correction.

The alternative in many cases is to make a trial exposure to check focus, zoom in on the required detail on the rear screen and adjust accordingly. I appreciate the screens can't be examined with a magnifier glass (loupe) but there seems to me there is no reason why the image can't be zoomed electronically right up to 1:1 pixel for pixel.
But surely it relies on the resolution of the viewscreen? Is that better, as good as, or worse than the rear screen?

I thought one of the key advantages of mirrorless was its ability to more precisely acquire focus with its af system. You may not need to zoom in and check it.o.O



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Eric


Posted by Robert: Sun Oct 14th, 2018 17:01 7th Post
AF???

How do you AF a 105mm f4 micro Nikkor? o.O AF a waste of space (literally) for photographing plowers. I need choose which bit is in focus, or not and by how much.

My fisheye, despite having a huge DoF still needs careful focusing at infinity to get really sharp stars. AF don't work too well in the dark with tiny specs of light. It's a pain when I get home and find the stars are not sharp.

This would be one of the main reasons I might be interested in a Z.

If you zoom the image, the pixels in the viewing screen stay the same, you just multiply the image in exactly the same way as you do the back screen to check focus in live view. I don't do that because of reflections and the need for a loupe, the viewfinder does that for you, no reflections and built in Loupe, provided it can zoom in.

I have read that it does, but no detail. Even Michael Earlwine has mentioned it, in passing, without elaborating.

The moment I get my hands on one I will want to check that out.

I am currently doing a time-lapse, since 2nd September, an exposure every ten minutes. As the plant grows I have to move the camera or pot, or both! Then I have to re-focus, live view on the D300 doesn't zoom in as much as I need, so I have to take a series of test shots to narrow in the focus on the bit I want. Also the plant moves about, back and forth, and sideways, plays havoc with my careful focus! LOL Naughty plant. Possible advantage we get to see better detail in different parts of the buds and leaves.



____________________
Robert.


Posted by Eric: Sun Oct 14th, 2018 17:37 8th Post
Robert wrote:
AF???

How do you AF a 105mm f4 micro Nikkor? o.O AF a waste of space (literally) for photographing plowers. I need choose which bit is in focus, or not and by how much.

My fisheye, despite having a huge DoF still needs careful focusing at infinity to get really sharp stars. AF don't work too well in the dark with tiny specs of light. It's a pain when I get home and find the stars are not sharp.

This would be one of the main reasons I might be interested in a Z.

If you zoom the image, the pixels in the viewing screen stay the same, you just multiply the image in exactly the same way as you do the back screen to check focus in live view. I don't do that because of reflections and the need for a loupe, the viewfinder does that for you, no reflections and built in Loupe, provided it can zoom in.

I have read that it does, but no detail. Even Michael Earlwine has mentioned it, in passing, without elaborating.

The moment I get my hands on one I will want to check that out.

I am currently doing a time-lapse, since 2nd September, an exposure every ten minutes. As the plant grows I have to move the camera or pot, or both! Then I have to re-focus, live view on the D300 doesn't zoom in as much as I need, so I have to take a series of test shots to narrow in the focus on the bit I want. Also the plant moves about, back and forth, and sideways, plays havoc with my careful focus! LOL Naughty plant. Possible advantage we get to see better detail in different parts of the buds and leaves.
The Z series has focus stacking to sort that.:thumbs:



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Eric


Posted by Robert: Sun Oct 14th, 2018 18:19 9th Post
Only with AF Lenses :thumbsdown:

I intend to build a proper focus stacking rig with a stepping motor eventually. ;-)

When I have time...

I cold really do with focus stacking for this time-lapse movie, but that would be a LOT of images. At the moment I have a lot of images of a Bay tree growing new shoots, 5761... if I stacked 4 images per frame that would be 23,044 imagesI guess 10 minute intervals is a bit much but sometimes it moves quite quickly. Seem to rest, then have a spurt of active growing.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack JK's thread.



____________________
Robert.


Posted by jk: Tue Oct 16th, 2018 15:15 10th Post
Yes the AF/ON button is programmed just like on the DSLR.



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Posted by jk: Thu Oct 18th, 2018 18:36 11th Post
Regarding the use of AF v MF, in my opinion the best way to macro is to set it to MF and the with Peak Focusing (Red highlight) move the focus or your whole rig in and out until the area of desired sharp focus is red highlighted. This is impossible with a DSLR as you need to see the viewfinder image sharply with no other visual aids. Great shame that there are no split image or fresnel focus screens with the out of focus = shimmet, in focus = clear image.



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Posted by Eric: Fri Oct 19th, 2018 06:32 12th Post
Have you put the D850 up for sale yet, Jonathan?;-)



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Eric


Posted by jk: Fri Oct 19th, 2018 06:43 13th Post
Not going to happen! Nor the D500.
D600, D3S, D700, .......if you want.



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Posted by Eric: Fri Oct 19th, 2018 12:46 14th Post
jk wrote:
Not going to happen! Nor the D500.
D600, D3S, D700, .......if you want.
Wasn't in the market ...just trying to get you to choose between the Z7 and D850;-)



____________________
Eric


Posted by Robert: Fri Oct 19th, 2018 13:44 15th Post
My guess is it isn't an easy choice, they aren't the same tools.

Seems more of a matter of having the right cameras and lenses for the subjects intended.

Decide on the subjects and the rest should follow.



____________________
Robert.


Posted by jk: Fri Oct 19th, 2018 15:28 16th Post
Robert wrote: My guess is it isn't an easy choice, they aren't the same tools. Seems more of a matter of having the right cameras and lenses for the subjects intended.Decide on the subjects and the rest should follow.

Yes exactly that. Both are best but in different situations.

The lenses irk me as I have all the F mount lenses I want/need but I can see the Z lenses are going to be better.
I also need to remove the AFD lenses and upgrade to AFS for specific items.However in reality these are very limited.  Really only the 85mm f1.4 AFD and Nikon 105mm f1.8 AiS (MF).


There is a Z lens coming in 2019 that I might go for 85mm f1.8 and a 14-30mm f4, also a 24-70mm f2.8 (replace the f4 lens that came with the camera) but seems like money poorly spent for an extra stop.Nothing else tempts in the current roadmap. 


The alternative would be to upgrade the 85mm f1.4 AFD to an AFS version in F mount.



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Posted by Eric: Fri Oct 19th, 2018 16:55 17th Post
Robert wrote:
My guess is it isn't an easy choice, they aren't the same tools.

Seems more of a matter of having the right cameras and lenses for the subjects intended.

Decide on the subjects and the rest should follow.
Not sure Nikon would agree with that.
They haven't build a full frame camera you cannot use on action photography, for example.

Not many Nikon DSLR customers would equip themselves with different cameras for different subjects ...that's what the lenses are for.

Surely the main object of every camera is to get sharp images in a range of situations that you encounter?

Can't believe you are suggesting people need to buy 2 or more multifunctional expensive camera bodies if they have a variety of interests.

And I am sure Nikon would be horrified that their new £3500 camera is regarded as unsuitable for large areas of photography
o.O



____________________
Eric


Posted by jk: Fri Oct 19th, 2018 18:28 18th Post
Perception is everything.
What I see as green with pink stripes, you may see as pink with green stripes!

From my perspective having used film SLR, DSLR, mirrorless Fuji, mirrorless Nikon there is a difference.
If I am wanting to be limited then I use poor tools and then try to get round it later.

IMHO.
If you have as your main speciality of BIF, action and sports then buy a D500.
If it is landscape, product shots, fashion, publicity and advertising get a D850
If it is studio portraits, product shots, travel, landscape, street, general walkabout then get Z7/Z6.
If you want to do everything, get a D850/D810.

Compromise is a dirty word if you are a specialist or have a specialism that requires a specific specification be it fast AF, EVF, etc....

My biggest gripe with the Z7 is the fact that they changed the lens mount. Not really an issue with the FTZ adapter.
The Z series lenses need to be expanded as fast as possible.

My biggest love in the Z7 is the FX/DX mode, EVF that shows my real exposure.

Functionality wise on the Z7 there are some niggles which may be me but I need confirmation from Nikon Tech that I am not doing something wrong.
For example:
I want U1 to be AF-S single spot, matrix metering, Single frame shooting.
I want U2 to be set up for HDR set of RAW exposures (The Nikon mode of HDR forces you to use JPG), so I want same as above but with 5frame AE bracket, shot in a burst of 5 shots so I need camera set to CL, 5 frame burst, AE bkt 5. THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE. Or it doesnt work for me as I need to change the single shot to CL independently. Grrrrrrr!



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Posted by Robert: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 02:47 19th Post
Eric wrote:


Not sure Nikon would agree with that.

o.O
That is exactly what Nikon do, they make cameras which are targeted at specialised usage areas. They even say so in their brochures, "perfect for sport" or "Ideal for the catwalk", "specially for Astro" etc.

D5 for press and top end general photography, D500 for speed and long lens, nature etc. D810a for UV, IR and astronomy, D850 for ultra high resolution allowing either cropping or very large prints, fashion.

And so on. No one camera it perfect in every situation. Some demand speed some demand High res.

I haven't even mentioned video, while I know that's controversial, many professionals DO use DSLR's for video and some are designed to excel at video, the D850 for example.

A feature which is an asset in one area of photography can be a liability in others.

Probably the strongest example from the current/recent lineup is the D810a.

A screenshot of their 810a brochure...

Attachment: Screen Shot 2018-10-20 at 07.34.15.jpg (Downloaded 23 times)



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Posted by jk: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 04:07 20th Post
Good point Robert.
Nikon like Pentax/Ricoh and Olympus are not camera companies they are optical instrument manufacturers.
Nikon and Olympus make superb microscopes, as well as cameras. Olympus cameras are great as are the lenses but for me the sensor (4/3) is too small.



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Posted by Eric: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 08:03 21st Post
Robert wrote:
Eric wrote:


Not sure Nikon would agree with that.

o.O
That is exactly what Nikon do, they make cameras which are targeted at specialised usage areas. They even say so in their brochures, "perfect for sport" or "Ideal for the catwalk", "specially for Astro" etc.

D5 for press and top end general photography, D500 for speed and long lens, nature etc. D810a for UV, IR and astronomy, D850 for ultra high resolution allowing either cropping or very large prints, fashion.

And so on. No one camera it perfect in every situation. Some demand speed some demand High res.

I haven't even mentioned video, while I know that's controversial, many professionals DO use DSLR's for video and some are designed to excel at video, the D850 for example.

A feature which is an asset in one area of photography can be a liability in others.

Probably the strongest example from the current/recent lineup is the D810a.

A screenshot of their 810a brochure...
OK I take your point on the 810a. But does that mean it's useless for sport, portraits, landscape? Surely not? If it is, it must be the first 'one function' camera on the market. Even the Fuji UV/IR forensic specialist camera took normal snaps as well.

They may try to attract a group of people with their target advertising but they don't use one word ...ONLY....for very good reason. These tools are versatile and cross over different photographic genre with great success. I don't believe one camera can be a liability in use. It may not be optimal but in the absence of a specialist device it should perform.

If you are someone who embraces many fields of photographic activity, you aren't going to buy one body for each! ( well maybe Jonathan would 😆)

Most people would buy one body that fitted their budget, secure in the knowledge it would satisfy very well, all their needs whatever's they were going to photograph....even if it meant a little compromise.

If someone couldn't afford long lenses but needed telephoto reach, they might be swayed to go DX. But as Graham is proving, using the D850 and cropping is better than a D500. So on balance, the high resolution 'product, studio camera' crosses into wildlife and probably sports use quite well. You currently don't NEED DSLR bodies dedicated to specific uses...well at least terrestrial uses. 😆

However, I think the difference between mirrorless and conventional bodies is that they introduce NEW functionality stumbling blocks that dont exist between say D5, D850, D500. It's these shortcomings that more than anything we have seen on DSLR bodies, suggest these cameras may not be as versatile....yet. Although I am sure that if you asked Nikon where they see the Z7 cameras being used they would say 'everywhere' ....because they want to sell loads.

:lol:



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Posted by Robert: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 09:29 22nd Post
Eric wrote:
OK I take your point on the 810a. But does that mean it's useless for sport, portraits, landscape? Surely not? If it is, it must be the first 'one function' camera on the market.
It specifically states "Not recommended for general photography" Screenshot below.

I am unable to find any new examples of the D810a for sale so either it was a very limited production run or they sold well...

I accept The D810a is an extreme example but most, especially the more expensive cameras do have recommended spheres of use, maybe not completely exclusive but tendency towards one aspect or another of photography, either by sensor size, resolution, features, robustness or weight/size.


If you are someone who embraces many fields of photographic activity, you aren't going to buy one body for each! ( well maybe Jonathan would 😆)
:lol:

Well I have the D3, for general photography the D300S for very occasion birding and longer stuff and a second body when I need one for motorsport. The D300S is still tied up on Time-Lapse duty since 2nd September, with one exposure every 10 minutes. It could be there 'til Christmas! (By which time it's shutter count will be off the clock!)

I am sure many enthusiasts have multiple cameras, each according to their interests. I regret parting with my D200's, but perhaps not the D1's

Nobody seems to be considering or mentioning the Z6, which could well be superior at high and low ISO and have a better dynamic range, not to mention drastically cheaper than the Z7.

Attachment: Screen Shot 2018-10-20 at 14.02.26.jpg (Downloaded 40 times)



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Robert.


Posted by Robert: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 09:30 23rd Post
Eric wrote:
OK I take your point on the 810a. But does that mean it's useless for sport, portraits, landscape? Surely not? If it is, it must be the first 'one function' camera on the market.
It specifically states "Not recommended for general photography" Screenshot below.

I am unable to find any new examples of the D810a for sale so either it was a very limited production run or they sold well...

I accept The D810a is an extreme example but most, especially the more expensive cameras do have recommended spheres of use, maybe not completely exclusive but tendency towards one aspect or another of photography, either by sensor size, resolution, features, robustness or weight/size.

If you are someone who embraces many fields of photographic activity, you aren't going to buy one body for each! ( well maybe Jonathan would 😆)
:lol:

Well I have the D3 for general photography and the D300S for very occasion birding and longer stuff and a second body when I need one for motorsport. The D300S is still tied up on Time-Lapse duty since 2nd September, with one exposure every 10 minutes. It could be there 'til Christmas! (By which time it's shutter count will be off the clock!)

I am sure many enthusiasts have multiple cameras, each according to their interests. I regret parting with my D200's, but perhaps not the D1's

Nobody seems to be considering or mentioning the Z6, which could well be superior at high and low ISO and have a better dynamic range, not to mention drastically cheaper than the Z7.

Back to the D810a for a moment, looking closely at the screenshot below I was surprised to see that it appears to have inbuilt exposure times of up to 900 seconds? Am I right, that's 60 hours??? Surely not?

Attachment: Screen Shot 2018-10-20 at 14.02.26.jpg (Downloaded 38 times)



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Robert.


Posted by Eric: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 09:43 24th Post
How do you get 60hours?


I'm not mentioning the Z6 because it hasn't been released on saie over here yet. But it could make a perfect general photography camera for me fulfilling the key features of (slightly) lighter weight, a sensible pixel count, and as you say, a more modest price.



____________________
Eric


Posted by jk: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 10:05 25th Post
Spent the afternoon testing my Godox flash units with the Z7.

Notionally I should use the Nikon wireless trigger for the flash to work but the Canon and Fuji versions also work and remotely control the flashes (AD600 and AD360) output.
Everything worked flawlessly exactly as if I had my Fujis plugged into the trigger.

I still need to check the HSS (High Speed Sync) or FP in Nikon parlance. This provides fill-in flash in sunny conditions so you can balance the ambient and fill in flash effectvely with shutter speeds in excess of the camera flash sync speed (1/200).

NOTE....... I do NOT use TTL flash except if I am shooting with hot shoe mounted flash.

The Nikon SB800 is meant to and does work with the Z7 in TTL mode.



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Posted by Eric: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 10:41 26th Post


I am sure many enthusiasts have multiple cameras, each according to their interests.
Maybe that's the problem. I don't consider myself an enthusiast....I just take photos.

:lol:

In fairness I do have a dedicated IR camera.

But my D3 was used for everything else (professional and leisure) without me feeling I needed another more specific body. Lenses ..yes! Specific to the subject....interiors, product shots, macro, portraits, scenery, events, sports and wildlife ....but all attached to the same body.



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Eric


Posted by Robert: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 11:11 27th Post
Eric wrote:
How do you get 60hours?
I don't know? with the calculator divided the 900 seconds by sixty because there are sixty seconds in a minute???...

Ah! Perhaps it's sixty minutes - one hour. I'm tired. It's still an ambitious exposure time for digital. Might result in a few hot pixels.


I'm not mentioning the Z6 because it hasn't been released on saie over here yet. But it could make a perfect general photography camera for me fulfilling the key features of (slightly) lighter weight, a sensible pixel count, and as you say, a more modest price.
I don't think it's public released anywhere yet. Probably wanted to wet the appetites of the enthusiasts first...



____________________
Robert.


Posted by Eric: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 12:32 28th Post
Robert wrote:
Eric wrote:
How do you get 60hours?
I don't know? with the calculator divided the 900 seconds by sixty because there are sixty seconds in a minute???...

Ah! Perhaps it's sixty minutes - one hour. I'm tired. It's still an ambitious exposure time for digital. Might result in a few hot pixels.


I'm not mentioning the Z6 because it hasn't been released on saie over here yet. But it could make a perfect general photography camera for me fulfilling the key features of (slightly) lighter weight, a sensible pixel count, and as you say, a more modest price.
I don't think it's public released anywhere yet. Probably wanted to wet the appetites of the enthusiasts first... :lol:



____________________
Eric


Posted by jk: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 13:05 29th Post
900 seconds = 15mins in my world!

:needsahug::applause:



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Posted by jk: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 13:19 30th Post
I am wondering if havng the Z7 excludes the Z6 as you can change to DX to get 24MP approx.
The DX feature on the Z6 will yield approx 12MP. Not so shabby but why have two slightly different cameras. Time will tell. The Z6 is better for video.



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Posted by Eric: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 14:20 31st Post
jk wrote:
I am wondering if havng the Z7 excludes the Z6 as you can change to DX to get 24MP approx.
The DX feature on the Z6 will yield approx 12MP. Not so shabby but why have two slightly different cameras. Time will tell. The Z6 is better for video.
I suppose it depends on whether the bigger pixels on the Z6 will give less noise and 'better' images than the Z7 in DX crop.

For many, 24mp is considered enough for their needs. Why pay more for pixels they won't use and potentially get lesser results when they crop?

What's interesting is with the D850 and presumably the Z7 we are seeing increasing numbers of cameras with sensor densities that exceed the (presumably now outdated) conventional wisdom on how many pixels we should pack in and still get quality images out at high ISO's.



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Posted by jk: Sat Oct 20th, 2018 14:24 32nd Post
Yes I agree with you but the D850 sensor grain/noise is probably less than the D3.
Agree with you about not having too many pixels. It is a balance that can vary with every person. Initially I thought that the D800 was too many pixels but I see a major advance with the D850 and the D800 is now my second string camera. The D600 is for sale!

I think the noise is down to the supporting chipset EXPEED which in the Z7 is EXPEED6.



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Posted by jk: Wed Oct 31st, 2018 18:16 33rd Post
Did a bit of rough testing today.
My Nikon 85mm f1.4 AF-D on FTZ adapter versus the Nikon 24-70 f4 Z series lens.
I hate to say it but my 85 was not nearly as good as my 24-70. Need to look at more of my lens a**enal in the light of this initial testing.



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Posted by Robert: Wed Oct 31st, 2018 18:27 34th Post
Methinks the 85 needs the right subject... My understanding is it isn't so much what should be sharp but the rendering of what isn't sharp with that lens.

Try the 105 f/2.5, that will test it.



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Posted by jk: Wed Oct 31st, 2018 19:43 35th Post
Yes I have the 105 AFS VR which should be good.
I will test that as soon as I get a chance.



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Posted by Robert: Thu Nov 1st, 2018 04:39 36th Post
It was the AI MF version I was referring to. AF's no good on a lens like that! :lol:



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Posted by jk: Thu Nov 1st, 2018 06:05 37th Post
AF is useful for initial focusing but useless thereafter in macro photography.

The Nikon 105mm f2.8 G AF-S VR is meant to be super sharp and I have no reason to doubt this.



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Posted by jk: Wed Nov 7th, 2018 12:59 38th Post
Well got to say that DPReview are not my favoured test reviewers. However they do seem to be relatively positive about the Z7.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z7

I really have found few problems moving to use the Z7 from the D850, D800 or D500.
One or two differences Yes but no show stoppers.
There is some mention of shadow detail striping which might make it less suitable for astrophotography.
I find the AF in low light is less certain or more hesitant than the D850/800/500. Small things but only because I am used to an alternative better in these conditions camwra! The advantages of mirrorless faf far outweigh these limitations.



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Posted by Robert: Wed Nov 7th, 2018 13:54 39th Post
jk wrote:

There is some mention of shadow detail striping which might make it less suitable for astrophotography.
As far as I can ascertain the banding only appears when in a normal photograph (as opposed to a night sky image) the dynamic range is pushed in post processing by excessive use of shadow recovery. Even then the noise reduction software in the NIK filter set is said to deal well with the phenomenon.

This should not affect night sky images which are correctly (sufficiently) exposed because usually dark detail isn't required. Boosting dim stars, nebula, gas clouds etc. is usually achieved by layering techniques which shouldn't require push processing of shadows.



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Posted by jk: Thu Nov 15th, 2018 16:50 40th Post
Eric, dont believe me about the EVF.
Checkthis out.
https://youtu.be/zY3irO0xJLQ



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Posted by Eric: Fri Nov 16th, 2018 06:49 41st Post
jk wrote:
Eric, dont believe me about the EVF.
Checkthis out.
https://youtu.be/zY3irO0xJLQ
I always believe what you say Jonathan. :bowing:

That was a very honest appraisal of the Z system from that chap.

He addressed several areas not mentioned by other reviewers or maybe made passing comments on certain aspects that helped me.

I see what you mean about the locked 24-70. I wonder if it is an idea that seemed good at the time but is unlikely to be repeated on future lenses?. I am not sure why they thought it necessary on this lens? Was it to stop zoom creep?

It all looks very encouraging and I look forward to handling one...when WEX get more in long enough for me to drive over there!



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Posted by jk: Fri Nov 16th, 2018 07:53 42nd Post
I prefer to say what I think but also like to provide additional supporting evidence.

The 24-70 is a PITA and when the new version comes I will trade in for that version.
I think it was done to stop zoom creep but also to provide a camera switch.
I honestly dont think that the Z6.is for me as I have a D850, D800 and D600.



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Posted by jk: Tue Dec 4th, 2018 15:53 43rd Post
Been testing the FTZ adapter with all my AFS lenses and they work like native lenses e.g. same as if they were on the D850.

What I am lusting for is to be able to use some of my older glass e.g. AFD lenses. Not sure that this isnt technically possible as looking inside the FTZ adapter there is a lot of space where some electronics and a motor can fit.
I am sure some very clever man on China is designing such an adapter.



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Posted by jk: Tue Dec 4th, 2018 16:21 44th Post
For anyone interested in my Z7 My Menu items are as follows.
Page1

Attachment: DC28BC73-B99D-4903-B5FF-15C47D293718.jpeg (Downloaded 43 times)



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Posted by jk: Tue Dec 4th, 2018 16:23 45th Post
For anyone interested in my Z7 My Menu items are as follows.
Page2

Attachment: 101A26B5-2E9D-4C1D-84A6-B2243AB4ECD4.jpeg (Downloaded 42 times)



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Posted by Eric: Tue Dec 4th, 2018 17:53 46th Post
I think one of the key things to get ones head around is the fact that the Z7 isn't going to be first choice for action ...if you have more suitable bodies like the D850 and D500 in your bag.

That being the case, the items on My Menu maybe/ will be a different selection to those on the action DSLR.

As the Z7 has got touch screen does that make it just as quick to use the 'i' button and touch the selection you want? Thus extending the quick access options to hand?


Footnote:
I've come to the conclusion I was a bit hard on the Fuji system. Although I still feel it came up short on EVF execution, annoying retro ergonomics, poor battery life and lack of real weight saving, I was probably expecting too much of it as an action camera.

The Z7 appears to have addressed several of those negatives....but it's still not going to take the place of a DSLR for action shots, any more than the Fuji, et al.

I was reading rumours that Nikon are building a mirrorless D6? I fear there is some way to go before mirrorless truly competes across the board with Dx and Dxxx bodies.



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Posted by Eric: Tue Dec 4th, 2018 18:12 47th Post
One of the interesting additions to the Z7 is the ability to configure the 'redundant' lens manual focus ring as a function 'button'. For example configuring it to be the exp comp function. That enables you to rotate the "focus" ring to seamlessly modify exposure with your left hand, while viewing the effect live in the viewfinder .....and leaving your right hand free, for the focus and shutter buttons.

That sounds very useful.



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Posted by jk: Tue Dec 4th, 2018 18:53 48th Post
Some interesting video clips on some of the more novel features of the Z7.

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/12/03/new-nikon-z-tips-videos.aspx/#more-130267


A D6 will cost £6000-7000 I predict.



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Posted by jk: Tue Dec 4th, 2018 18:56 49th Post
Eric wrote:
One of the interesting additions to the Z7 is the ability to configure the 'redundant' lens manual focus ring as a function 'button'. For example configuring it to be the exp comp function. That enables you to rotate the "focus" ring to seamlessly modify exposure with your left hand, while viewing the effect live in the viewfinder .....and leaving your right hand free, for the focus and shutter buttons.

That sounds very useful.
I havent tried that yet.
Interesting thought, another job for tomorrow.



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Posted by jk: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 09:12 50th Post
Eric wrote:
One of the interesting additions to the Z7 is the ability to configure the 'redundant' lens manual focus ring as a function 'button'. For example configuring it to be the exp comp function. That enables you to rotate the "focus" ring to seamlessly modify exposure with your left hand, while viewing the effect live in the viewfinder .....and leaving your right hand free, for the focus and shutter buttons.

That sounds very useful.
Tried this today and while it works well I think that it is less good for me.
I want the changes to be more click stopped than continuous.



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Posted by Eric: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 12:52 51st Post
jk wrote:
Eric wrote:
One of the interesting additions to the Z7 is the ability to configure the 'redundant' lens manual focus ring as a function 'button'. For example configuring it to be the exp comp function. That enables you to rotate the "focus" ring to seamlessly modify exposure with your left hand, while viewing the effect live in the viewfinder .....and leaving your right hand free, for the focus and shutter buttons.

That sounds very useful.
Tried this today and while it works well I think that it is less good for me.
I want the changes to be more click stopped than continuous.
Yes I know what you mean. Suspect it could also get moved inadvertently.



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Posted by jk: Thu Dec 6th, 2018 13:02 52nd Post
Yes that was also a concern I had.
I think that I may still use it as an occasional item.



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Posted by jk: Sun Dec 9th, 2018 15:21 53rd Post
This looks interestng.
https://photorumors.com/2018/12/08/just-announced-kipon-elegant-mirrorless-lenses-for-the-nikon-z-and-canon-r-systems/#more-104214

All manual focus but I wonder how the 90mm f2.4 performs?



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Posted by jk: Wed Dec 19th, 2018 09:18 54th Post
More for Eric.

https://www.dpreview.com/videos/8608696070/video-nigel-danson-on-his-switch-to-mirrorless-and-the-nikon-z7



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Posted by jk: Wed Dec 19th, 2018 11:05 55th Post
Some images shot in Cornwall with the Z7.

Attachment: Z7-1-0130_HDR-web.jpg (Downloaded 22 times)



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Posted by jk: Wed Dec 19th, 2018 11:06 56th Post
Some images shot in Cornwall with the Z7.

Attachment: Z7-1-0227_HDR-web.jpg (Downloaded 25 times)



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Posted by jk: Wed Dec 19th, 2018 11:06 57th Post
Some images shot in Cornwall with the Z7.

Attachment: Z7-1-0232_HDR-web.jpg (Downloaded 23 times)



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Posted by jk: Wed Dec 19th, 2018 11:07 58th Post
Some images shot in Cornwall with the Z7. 

All taken with Z7 and 24-70 f4 S series (kit) lens.

Attachment: Z7-1-0014-framed-web.jpg (Downloaded 24 times)



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Posted by Graham Whistler: Fri Dec 21st, 2018 05:42 59th Post
Some good pitures there JK camera working well for you.



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Posted by jk: Tue Jan 8th, 2019 06:41 60th Post
Additional features coming to Z series.

https://www.dpreview.com/news/7011682215/nikon-to-add-eye-af-raw-video-support-and-cfexpress-support-to-z-series



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Posted by jk: Tue Jan 8th, 2019 17:37 61st Post
The 14-30 f4 just announced will be smaller and lighter than the 24-70 f4.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/6069040200/nikon-introduces-14-30mm-f4-ultra-wide-zoom-for-z-mount

I like this.
All that is required is the 70-200 f2.8 and it is a full set.



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Posted by Robert: Tue Jan 8th, 2019 23:26 62nd Post
jk wrote:
The 14-30 f4 just announced will be smaller and lighter than the 24-70 f4.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/6069040200/nikon-introduces-14-30mm-f4-ultra-wide-zoom-for-z-mount

I like this.
All that is required is the 70-200 f2.8 and it is a full set.
What about native 300mm PF, a 5 or 600mm PF, a 16mm (or 8mm) Fisheye and what about an 85mm f1.4 or even faster? These are all very important lenses, a 58mm f/0.9 Noct is all very well but something of a niche lens surely?

No doubt there are other important lenses, like native PC tilt shift lenses, which may not be in everybody's bag but for those who do need them they are indispensable. The Z mount should be particularly good for the T/S lenses having such a large throat, it should give the designers much more freedom to achieve greater potential than with the F mount, especially on the shift movement.



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Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 04:22 63rd Post
I honestly cant see the point of a 58mm f0.9 lens. Seems like a jewellery item with only very limited use. If you bump the ISO two or three stops it is the same exposure, I know there is the limited DoF effect as well but I can do that in Photoshop.

The other lenses you mention are all useable with the FTZ.
Not sure about the fisheye end stuff.



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Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 07:22 64th Post
Using the 14-24mm f2.8 AFS on the FTZ on Z7.
BTW:  That is not my shadow on the rock but moss!!  I did a double take when I saw the image at first.  There wasnt that much light as it was 10/10 cloud.

Attachment: Z7-1-1217-web.jpg (Downloaded 10 times)



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Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 07:22 65th Post
Using the 14-24mm f2.8 AFS on the FTZ on Z7.
B&W

Attachment: Z7-1-1222a-ON1_2019.jpg (Downloaded 10 times)



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Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 07:23 66th Post
Using the 14-24mm f2.8 AFS on the FTZ on Z7.
HDR

Attachment: Z7-1212-16_HDR-2.jpg (Downloaded 9 times)



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Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 08:00 67th Post
And Golitha Falls, Cornwall.

Attachment: Z7-1-1105-1.jpg (Downloaded 11 times)



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Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 08:02 68th Post
Golitha Falls, Cornwall.
In HDR (5 image set).
Is it worth the extra images?

Attachment: Z7-1-1110-HDR-1.jpg (Downloaded 9 times)



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Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 08:03 69th Post
Interested to hear comments about the relative merits of these last two posts.These are straight out the software without me needing to fiddle and didle as some people do.  I dont spend more than 2-5mins on an edit.  That is unless it is for a customer.
HDR and non-HDR.



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Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 08:19 70th Post
And another straight image (no HDR).

Attachment: Z7-1-1053-1.jpg (Downloaded 12 times)



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Posted by Robert: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 08:20 71st Post
jk wrote:
Interested to hear comments about the relative merits of these last two posts.
HDR and non-HDR.
What software did you use?

The HDR looks much better to my eyes without examining either in detail, I just feel the highlights of the HRD are a bit bright? Maybe.

What spacing are the exposures? I tend to use .3 stop for images like that.

I am copying hundreds of slides at the moment and I am using bracketed HDR five exposures @ .3 spacing with the D800. Am getting some superb results from badly exposed slides, HDR processing in Lightroom. I tend to discard obviously over exposed frames, else it pushes the brights too bright.

I have discovered a way of stacking batches for HDR in Lightroom, so I can get on with photographing more slides while they are processing. Select the five or however many, (I have used up to 10 exposures when the range has been extreme on really dark slides) press ctrl+shift+H together, and repeat. I have batched ten sets at once, it just gets on with it. Magic.

Nice to see the Cornish landscape, hope you will repeat when the sun shines!



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Posted by Robert: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 08:24 72nd Post
jk wrote:
And another straight image (no HDR).
Nice, I like the dew on the spiders thread. :thumbs:

I think you got a selfie in the roundish bead of water lower centre.

Try taking it to 100%...



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Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 08:26 73rd Post
I have used Photoshop HDR.I find the LR HDR to be very slow and processor intensive compared to the Photoshop version.
I also have Aurora 2019 which I havent tested as yet.

I use 5 shot sets, with -2, -1, 0, +1, +2 as the range.



They recommend that you use 0.3 increments if you do larger groups of exposures e.g. 9 or 11 shot sets.



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Posted by Robert: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 08:31 74th Post
I think it's the same engine as the Lr HDR, tends to give mild effect, although I think you can crank the Ps version up a bit.

I am tending to use HDR a lot now, it helps with shadow and highlight detail, can bring a lot out of what might otherwise be a rather bland image.

Not good for BIF! Although I have had some nice results...



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Posted by jk: Wed Jan 9th, 2019 08:36 75th Post
Interesting. The first image I posted was the recommended exposure (0EV).

This is the -2EV exposure.  So much more detail.

Attachment: Z7-1-1054-1.jpg (Downloaded 11 times)



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