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| Author | Post | |||||||||
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jk
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Well it is here with a projected arrival date of next month! I think the wait may be a little longer but I can wait for it. This camera is ever so slightly larger than a D700. https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d850-first-impressions-review/1 |
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jk
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I think it is on my Christmas list! Ordered. |
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Eric
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Does this mean you are now swaying back to Nikon and deserting Fuji? |
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jk
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No, it is horses for courses. I dont intend to buy any more Nikon gear (lenses or cameras) breakdown replacements aside. On the Fuji front I may get another XT2 body, 80mm f2.8 macro and possibly 10-24mm. In reality I am done I need to use my freedom and free time to go shoot more pictures in different places. |
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Graham Whistler
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I think I could be very interested in one of these! Any one like a D810 body and an MB12 Nikon Power Grip for it? All in good condition and low mileage? |
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Eric
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OH Jonathan!!! Just been playing with the D850 at WEX. Goes on sale next month. AWESOME! It's got the same deep grip that I loved on the D750.....with 95% of the D5. The Nikon representative was a lovely lady from Spain. I did suggest she take it back with her and drop it off at your place.  Incidentally it doesn't crop the sensor to get 45/24/12mp, although it still has that feature...it switches off pixels?  I would have thought that left gaps in the full frame image.  Have to say had I not been buying a new camera for the wife I might have been tempted to place an order there and then. The Fuji system has one more season to prove itself. If it fails to deliver in the way I want, the Nikon 850 is for me. Although heavier than Fuji, the grip makes it feel a lot better. Admittedly you will have heavy glass to add but it's so good ....I would rather go to the gym. I didn't have a lot of time to play with it but the feeling was reminiscent of the first time I handled the D3 after the D2X. A breath of fresh air! I suspect it will sell well even at £3500 ish. |
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Iain
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While I haven't got £3500 at the moment I think I am destined to own a D850, it looks such a good all round camera. |
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Eric
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Iain wrote:While I haven't got £3500 at the moment I think I am destined to own a D850, it looks such a good all round camera. I reckon if I sell all my Fuji gear I could do a straight swop. But I am not rushing into this one, despite the attraction. Having sold all my Nikon lenses to fund the Fuji, I would need to buy some select lenses as well. I owe it to Fuji to convince me it's good enough. But I have to say THAT DSLR just feels 'right' in the hand.  |
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Graham Whistler
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I have ordered my D850 today and should have it 20 Sept when I get back from holiday in France with the D500. LCE have my order and I gave them the D810 got very good trade in price £1200 plus extra £200 good customer bonus. (I got my D500 and 500 mm lens from them.) |
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Eric
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Graham Whistler wrote:I have ordered my D850 today and should have it 20 Sept when I get back from holiday in France with the D500. LCE have my order and I gave them the D810 got very good trade in price £1200 plus extra £200 good customer bonus. (I got my D500 and 500 mm lens from them.) Green with envy.  |
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jk
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Well if she arrives with it she will get a great welcome. I am expecting my D850 to come to me from FixationUK in their first batch as I am no3 on the list and have NPS priority. Life is good. |
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Iain
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Graham Whistler wrote:I have ordered my D850 today and should have it 20 Sept when I get back from holiday in France with the D500. LCE have my order and I gave them the D810 got very good trade in price £1200 plus extra £200 good customer bonus. (I got my D500 and 500 mm lens from them.) Sounds like a good deal Graham. |
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Eric
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Iain wrote:Graham Whistler wrote: Think it was good deal week, last week. I got a good px price for my Fuji XT1........then the wife fell for a new monopod and wiped out the benefit. |
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Dave Groen
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My guess is that in lower resolution mode, it uses all the pixels but stores one average value for two or four pixels instead of each value for each pixel. A big question from me - which lenses have enough resolution to complement a 45 MP sensor? When I went to a D800, half my lenses weren't good enough. |
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jk
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Dave Groen wrote: My guess is that in lower resolution mode, it uses all the pixels but stores one average value for two or four pixels instead of each value for each pixel.I think you are right Dave. It is reverse interpollation which may help reduce noise as well. Lens question is a good one. I have good glass at present no issues with my D3S, D600 and D800 but I think that stretching to 45MP may be too much for some of the older lenses. |
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jk
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Iain wrote:While I haven't got £3500 at the moment I think I am destined to own a D850, it looks such a good all round camera. Got to admit that £3500 seems a little steep but looking back it is the same price as my D1, D1X, D2X, D3, D3X. So in reality my D800 was quite cheap but the D850 is an infinitely better camera than all the previous cameras up to the D5. |
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Graham Whistler
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I think for me it will also be a better camera than the D5. If it has all the focus bits from the D500 plus more def and better noise at higher ISO ie up to 3200 than the D810 I shall be well pleased. LCE have recieved my D810 and are holding good to their quote for trade in on the D850 and the new camera will be waiting for me when I come back from holiday in France on 20.9.17. |
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Judith
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I think I'll stick with my D810 which has more than enough bells and whistles for me. If I was going to buy another camera, it would be the D500. |
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jk
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The D500 and D850 will be a great pairing with my D800. All the rest can go except for my IR converted Nikons and the D300/D300S that I use underwater. |
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Eric
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jk wrote:The D500 and D850 will be a great pairing with my D800. It will be interesting to see if the D500 IQ is as good as or better than a cropped D850. |
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jk
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Eric wrote:jk wrote: It is going to be difficult to do a meaningful comparison as D500 =20MP versus D850 =45MP. And then the crop on the D500. I have never believed in magic bullets but in having all the right tools which means everything doesnt look like a hammer! |
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Eric
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jk wrote:Eric wrote: Fair point ...but I equally believe the more choice you have, the more difficult it is to choose. It was so much easier in the D1X days. You made 6mp work for everything. I would also add that not everyone, especially Yorkshiremen, are prepared to lay up cash in multiple bodies for every eventuality ...if one could cover all your needs. I may be searching for the holy grail but if the D850 has got improved high ISO performance over the D810 and can deliver fine detail at the rate of a D500, I would say it's very close. It may not be as big an issue when toggling between Nikon bodies but I certainly felt hampered toggling between Fuji and Nikon...even though the subjects and situations of their use were different. I still feel the Fuji is a great camera but mirrorless is a compromise in functionalit that doesn't allow me to get close to 'one hammer fits all'. Maybe I am a lazy photographer. But I just want to pick up one camera, with which I am fully familiar and comfortable, and take the photograph...only varying settings and lenses, to suit the subject. |
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jk
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I tend to shoot either Fuji or Nikon never both. I intend to pair the D850 with D800 and the D500 with a D300S. I always work with two cameras. |
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jk
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People may find this list useful or interesting. https://nikonrumors.com/2017/08/29/list-of-recommended-lenses-for-the-nikon-d850-camera.aspx/ |
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Eric
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jk wrote:I tend to shoot either Fuji or Nikon never both. These days I work on the principle that if I can't get the shot with the (one) camera in my hand...I'm in the wrong place. |
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jk
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Has anyone found the PDF brochure of the D850? Nikon normally posts this when a new camera specification is released? |
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jk
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OK. I found it. It is not on the UK site but is here on the Nikon Canada site. https://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/e/Q5NM96RZZo-YRYNeYvAi9beHK4x3L-8h09FYyKWnWU6L2l14O7STBw==/Misc/D850_brochure.pdf |
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Robert
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Thanks for digging the brochure out JK, a very interesting read. It seems there is a lot of substance in this camera, way beyond the headline 45Mp resolution, which in itself doesn't interest me. In fact it puts me off, due to the issues which come with ultra high resolution. Lens demands, file sizes and demands on technique not being the least. If I had the funds this might even interest me seriously. |
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Iain
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Eric wrote:jk wrote: You sound like me when I tried the Fuji system, outcome for me was back to all Nikon. |
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Eric
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Iain wrote:Eric wrote:We live and learn. |
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jk
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I think it is horses for courses. |
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novicius
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That Back-Lit Sensor reminds me of " pre-lighting " film , to obtain Higher filmspeeds , never caught on for some reason, it was a good thing tho`, for it worked. Nice to see it implemented in a sensor. |
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jk
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FYI. The full sized sensor images from the D850 are.... 14bit RAW uncompressed 92MB 12bit RAW uncompressed 70MB I will probably shoot 12/14bit uncompressed RAW. |
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jk
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For those interested here is the D850 manual. http://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/products/359/D850.html |
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amazing50
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Wasn't too excited about the D850 until I read through the actual production specs etc. Called up our local Nikon dealer and he had a pre-order cancellation. Less than an hour later I snapped my first pic. It is a notable step up from the D610. Has a good solid feel to it. Lots of interesting reading in the 400 page manual. |
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Robert
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Well done, hope you enjoy. It's a great camera. |
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jk
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My D850 will be on its way to me today (8 Sept) I hope as FixationUK asked me to provide them with my credit card details. Look forward to testing it and have the option to choose resolution of image 12/24/45MP. I will probably shoot in 24MP RAW most of the time as this is great for most stuff. However I will have the option to go to 45MP should I so desire. |
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Iain
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It will be interesting to hear what you think Jonathan. |
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Graham Whistler
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I am just back from holiday in France and my D850 is waiting for me and I will have it tomorrow. I have traded in my D810 but will keep my D500. |
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jk
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My D850 arrived today. All customised and ready to go now. New battery is charging but I can use battery from D600 or D500. Need a decent strap of the type I like but need to check my bags to see if I have a spare. Now go take pictures! |
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jk
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My D850 arrived today. I have it all customised and ready to go now. New battery is charging but I can use battery from D600 or D500. Need a decent strap of the type I like but need to check my bags to see if I have a spare. Now go take pictures! |
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Robert
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Look forward to seeing some samples.  |
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jk
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I dont think that you will see the difference on a webimage. Need to look at some full sized images as they come out. |
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novicius
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Perhaps some pics. of that new beauty itself with some of yer fav. lenses ,..I find that Camera`s and lenses make for great photo studies themself. |
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amazing50
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Nice that it works on the D600 etc. batteries. Only takes Nikon originals. The aftermarket ones won't work.  |
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jk
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Yes I have both pukka Nikon and some non-Nikon EN-EL15 batteries but they showed no activity but I thought that they might need charging. I will test further in the coming weeks. I took some test shots today but I havent downloaded from camera. I have had to update my CaptureOne Pro to v10.2. I need to update LR v6.12.1 on my Macbook Air and Windows Surface Pro 4 as I am currently away from home. |
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amazing50
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My dealer said that the only ones that work have "Li-ion20" on the silver part of the label. Both of my older Nikon EL15's work fine. |
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Graham Whistler
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My D850 arrive today so will try to have some pix ASAP. So far so good seems to work well and have downloaded drivers for the new NEF files. |
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Robert
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Looking forward to that Graham, am fascinated to see an image from a 45Mp camera. I remember that photograph you took of a horse and rider across a canyon in America. D810? |
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highlander
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Having seen the reviews I initially thought the D850 could tempt me back to Nikon. But then I saw the price. And the weight. To be honest I would be more tempted with a Canon 6D which are now less than 1/3rd the price of the D850, which leaves a lot of room for buying glass. And saying that, I spotted a very good D3 for under £800 the other day..... |
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Graham Whistler
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Took the D850 to Titchfield Haven with 500mm lens plus x1.4 very dull and birds all long way out so this is about 15% of the image ISO 1600. Camera works very quickly with the big lens focus tracking good. Detail with such a big blow-up is very good. Attachment: Ruff050.jpg (Downloaded 30 times) |
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Graham Whistler
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This is whole frame. Hope to have some much better pix soon but all looks very good so far, perhaps the D500 can go? Attachment: Ruff Whole Frame050_01.jpg (Downloaded 29 times) |
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Eric
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Graham Whistler wrote:Took the D850 to Titchfield Haven with 500mm lens plus x1.4 very dull and birds all long way out so this is about 15% of the image ISO 1600. Camera works very quickly with the big lens focus tracking good. Detail with such a big blow-up is very good. Graham ...is there noise reduction on that cropped image? The back bird appears to have a very smooth look....unless it was wearing make up.  |
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Graham Whistler
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No noise reduction but it was misty rain falling and I think it killed some detail. I hold back till I've seen pix in good strong light. |
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Eric
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Graham Whistler wrote:No noise reduction but it was misty rain falling and I think it killed some detail. I hold back till I've seen pix in good strong light. Interesting. It's a very nice smooth bird...the ones here in Norfolk are a lot rougher (like most things up here) round the edges . Look forward to see how things progress...while I save my pennies. |
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jk
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It is really difficult to appreciate the detail in the images from the D850. You need to look at the whole image then take a zoomed section out to show the detail. The display on a screen (72dpi typically) or over the internet reduces the visible detail appreciably. I think that the only way to really see the detail is to print a large image and compare with a smaller MP image. |
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Eric
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jk wrote:It is really difficult to appreciate the detail in the images from the D850. So the D850 is only going to be for large scale prints? The on screen detail that Graham had in the little owl image from the humble D500 was astounding. |
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Graham Whistler
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Not a good day for photography shooting through misty rain with a 700mm lens then looking at a very small area. Non of the pix were very good but simple tests in the road show the camera works well and produces good clean sharp pixs. Noise levels look very low but at this stage I have not done enough to see if they are the same or a bit better than the very good levels with the D500. You have all seen what the D500 can do with the Kingfisher pixs and the same 500mm lens and ISO 3200. |
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jk
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I would expect the D500 images to be cleaner or with less noise than the D850 under the same conditions. I stll need to shoot some flamenco pictures with the D850. For me that will be the real test as it will be up against the D3S and D600 which produce fine images at ISO6400 with low noise (low is not the same as no!). |
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Graham Whistler
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Early days I was too keen going out in a day with mist and rain. Test shots taken up the road look just as good as any recent Nikon DSLR and handling and auto focus are spot on. |
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jk
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I would agree the AF unit is top notch as good or better than my D3S. |
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Graham Whistler
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I have been very busy with working on mt latest railway dvd so am only just getting to grips with the D850 this was this afternoon. 24-70mm AF-S lens 400 ISO 1/250 sec at f16. Attachment: Flowers083.jpg (Downloaded 34 times) |
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Graham Whistler
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Detail from same pix, flower is one bottom centre. Attachment: Detail Flowers083.jpg (Downloaded 34 times) |
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Robert
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Nothing wrong with that Graham, love the texture in the full image. The lighting helps a lot. Captured the essence as well as the image... |
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jk
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Finding some moire in my images with the D850 of certain materials. Not unexpected I guess with such a high pixel density. Detail is phenomenal. I need to do more tests with it in 45/24/12MP mode and see how the same image is tendered at the different resolutions. |
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jk
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Finding some moire in my images with the D850 of certain materials. Not unexpected I guess with such a high pixel density. Detail is phenomenal. I need to do more tests with it in 45/24/12MP mode and see how the same image is tendered at the different resolutions. |
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Graham Whistler
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Sadly a lot of the fine detail is lost posting it here. The fine detail in the white tips is amazing in full evening sunlight. I just used a tiny bit of unsharp mask (no other Photoshop work) and the shot was taken with matrix metering but -0.7 to correct for the dark background causing slight over exposure on the first pix taken at 0. |
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highlander
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Iain wrote:Eric wrote: Me too |
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novicius
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Even on the screen it shows Rich texture |
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jk
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Liking my D850 a lot but there are still occasions where the Fujis win. |
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novicius
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jk wrote:Liking my D850 a lot but there are still occasions where the Fujis win. That `s a Bold statement , how , where J K ? |
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jk
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Mirrorless cameras allow you to see the exposure that will be rendered before you make the exposure itself. This means that to a large extent bracketing is unnecessary. The cameras are lighter and for me the Fuji XT2 control layout is superior to anything Nikon or Canon has offered in a DSLR. This is just my personal preference but it mimics my Nikon F3 in many ways. |
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Robert
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Does this apply to long night exposures too? I have been disappointed with the D300 and D3300, live view screens in this respect, it's OK with 'normal' exposures and video but for long exposures it doesn't seem to provide any clue as to the expected look of final image. It COULD of course be operator error... |
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jk
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No long exposure results are not so accurate. For short exposures it is a definite plus. |
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Robert
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jk wrote:No long exposure results are not so accurate. For short exposures it is a definite plus. That's good, so we can rule out the operator then! |
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novicius
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If live-view means looking at the monitor , then that`s when the camera dances in my hands...I can not use that feature on my D3S due to it doing the cha-cha , mambo, foxtrot all at the same time...is that operator-error without the operator being at fault... If only the waist-level finder could be re-invented... |
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jk
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novicius wrote:If live-view means looking at the monitor , then that`s when the camera dances in my hands...I can not use that feature on my D3S due to it doing the cha-cha , mambo, foxtrot all at the same time...is that operator-error without the operator being at fault... The advantage of mirrorless is that there is no optical viewfinder but you rely on the eyepiece electronic viewfiender whoch yields an image as the sensor will capture it (more or less). On the Fujis you have the eyepiece or the TFT screen on the back of the camera whichever you choose. At this point in time I am very much still on assessment mode for the D850 but the IQ from the camera is limited by the lens I am sure. Focus speed is excellent as is the AF accuracy. |
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Graham Whistler
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Auto tracking on these Canada Geese was spot on focus locked on the front birds. Nikon 500mm AF-S F4 Lens plus x1.4 = 700mm 800ISO 1/1000 sec F18. I'm getting to grips with the new camera and it is working very well. Noise levels are very impressive, sharpness spot on. Attachment: Canada Geese.jpg (Downloaded 13 times) |
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Eric
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That's my concern. I won't commit the necessary cash for 500mm or 600mm primes and without doing that, I fear the D850 quality advantage won't be realised. I feel the D500 may still be my preferred route for long range photography. |
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novicius
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Eric wrote:
I keep hearing that , but I`ve found that the better the camera is, the better the lens gets , my ancient 55mm/f1.2 was never a champion at anything , but on the D3S/X when selecting the right profile , it delivers sharp, punchy pics. with good color rendition , even wide-open , so perhaps a software thing then....when everything clicks , overall quality improves tremendously,..there are several here who shoot with " classic " lenses,and perhaps have made the same experiences ? |
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Robert
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I know I keep harking back to this sharpness/definition thing but there is much more to an image than raw sharpness and basic contrast. This applies particularly to the mid range focal lengths, obviously a birder needs the ultimate sharpness and so does the avid macro photographer. Some of the best Zeiss lenses have a soft feel to their images, they aren't substandard, they are designed that way. Also the colour of the lens adds another 'layer' to the image, oft times enhancing the final picture. There is much more to a lens than meets the eye. I have to admit these newer cameras can probably make more of what they receive from the lens than the earlier less sensitive cameras with lower resolution and a narrower dynamic range. This probably presents another challenge to the user in harnessing the 'power' of the combination. Am struggling to put this over clearly, but I think the message is there. |
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jk
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novicius wrote:Eric wrote: I think that is a truth as a good lens will perform well but there is a limit but I dont know where this limit is! |
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Eric
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novicius wrote:Eric wrote: I used an AFD 300mm f2.8 for a number of years. Regarded as a great lens it served me well...until I tried an AFS 300mm f4. No contest. A lack of colour fringing was the main difference, but the image was also sharper..even at f4. Maybe I had a lesser lens all those years? My position is that I am not prepared to spend thousands of pounds on long reach prime lenses in addition to the camera body. Older long lenses = weight and bulk. Add to this my experience with older telephoto lenses ( I had a 200mm that was also questionable with digital) and my only choice is ...get a cheaper zoom lens or forget long range photography. I wonder if zoom lenses will resolve the D850 sensor optimally? |
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novicius
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Eric wrote:novicius wrote: Interesting observations , my Longest lens are the Novoflex 400 F5.6 ( two of those , one with macro bellows and the other with metal tube with has its coating flaking off , yet without impairing image quality )..these suffer of Curvature of field ( not as much as the Leitz - telyt lenses ), but to counter that , a D1X is residing on those , turning them into 600mm f5.6 lenses , these perform "better " with that camera then they ever did with a F / F2 /F3 /FA , yet I am looking into a Nikon V1 as the bellows were never intended to withstand the " heftiness " of a Big D camera. Thing is , some Digital camera`s can be Calibrated to the Lens in use, and as reviewers , thorough they may be , NEVER mention the Calibration possibilities , leads me to ask : Dear Messrs. D850 shooters , does it have the same calibration options as the D3S/X camera`s , which have the Non-CPU section where Focal length and Aperture can be selected , mount a "classic " lens to see how well that calibration performs , as I suspect that BOTH Lateral and longitudinal chromatic aberations will be dealt with and therefore Improving on ,...Sharpness - Color Rendition - Micro Contrast ,..even minimises Veiling Flare as well , as I have found that to be the case with the D3S/X camera`s... ( tongue in cheek )...perhaps J K could be pursuaded to dust-off his trusty Nikkor 50mm F1.2 putting it through its paces with that D850...and mr. Whistler might have something too...? Looking forward to your observations. |
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amazing50
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jk wrote:Mirrorless cameras allow you to see the exposure that will be rendered before you make the exposure itself. If you are in live view and hit the OK button on the bottom left, it shows the actual exposure and on the right edge of the screen an exposure scale. The image will change to reflect your settings. Found it quite accurate today doing some weird sky colours, but still tried a few shots to get the effect I wanted. It can also show a live histogram, provided it's turned on in the menus, in this mode by pressing the info button until it comes up. |
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jk
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amazing50 wrote:jk wrote: I will give that a test as I havent ever tried that. In the mirrorless cameras the image on the rear screen or EVF is what you capture from the sensor. |
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jk
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amazing50 wrote:jk wrote: I will give that a test as I havent ever tried that. In the mirrorless cameras the image on the rear screen or EVF is what you capture from the sensor. |
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Graham Whistler
|
I have no old film age Nikon lenses to try all mine are modern ones! Lots more to learn about this camera it seems to be very well thought-out. So far no complaints at all for serious still photography of a wide range of subject matter. The only downside for me so far: As I am also a serious professional user of camcorders for my railway dvds I have done some video tests and I still think a designer made pro camcorder is still the best tool. It is not easy to do smooth zooms with a DSLR.The steady-cam on the D850 is not all that good. Using the LCD monitor in bright light is also a no no and clip on hoods get in the way when shooting action. |
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Eric
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Graham Whistler wrote:I have no old film age Nikon lenses to try all mine are modern ones! Lots more to learn about this camera it seems to be very well thought-out. So far no complaints at all for serious still photography of a wide range of subject matter. The only downside for me so far: I tend to agree with your video conclusion. However I was very surprised how much of an improvement in the zoom control there has been on my wife's LUMIX FZ2000....compared to her previous FZ1000. It's smooth and slow...with an option for a faster zoom on a separate button! It's quite ironic that I've been using previous cameras poor zoom control to try to stop her zooming so much. She has never fully embraced the moving picture not moving camera notion. Now she can do it smoothly it's lessened my argument. If Panasonic can deliver professional zoom control then you would have hoped Nikon could do it also. Graham and Jonathan I know you have your hands full evaluating the D850 for your own purposes but when you get a spare moment....I would really like to know how the D850 compares to the D500 with the 80-400 and the 100-500 lenses. (Assuming you both have the D500 and one of those zoom lenses) I am not in the market for long primes...so if I go back to Nikon for bird photography it would be one of these lenses. The question is whether the D850 with its extra cropability is going to be better than a D500 with these 'lesser' lenses? Thanks |
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jk
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I have the 200-500 so can test that on D850 and try to get similar shots with the D500. I have the Sigma 80-400 which the Nikon equivalent should best easily. I tend to use the 70-300 AFS VR and 200-500 AFS VR which gives me best coverage. |
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Graham Whistler
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I also still have my 80-400 AF-S lens and the D500 have no thoughts of getting rid of either. Two bodies are still needed for my bird photography and ASAP will do the test but at present am very busy with orders for my latest DVD. |
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jk
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jk wrote:I have the 200-500 so can test that on D850 and try to get similar shots with the D500. I have the Sigma 80-400 which the Nikon equivalent should best easily. I tend to use the 70-300 AFS VR and 200-500 AFS VR which gives me best coverage. FYI: I use the 70-300 on FX, and the 200-500 on the DX. This gives an FX equivalent range of 70-750. |
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Graham Whistler
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No problems with D850 so far this is a simple studio pix for E-Bay selling one of my old camcorders. So studio flash low ISO and F16 with my very sharp 24-70mm AF-S. Shame with jpg here you can not see the quality but no noise at all even at 300% Attachment: NX5.jpg (Downloaded 24 times) |
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Graham Whistler
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This is 200% detail of above pix. High ISO with this camera also very good and 3200 ISO is very good and well up to the D500 perhaps bit better but with tiny bit more colour noise easy to cope with. Attachment: Detail 200%.jpg (Downloaded 24 times) |
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Eric
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Even with jpeging they look very good. Where are you with your thinking on the use of the D500 versus cropping the D850? I am still thinking of a limited, single camera, return to Nikon but the main decision is D500 or D850 ....and crop back the 1.4x factor. |
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Graham Whistler
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Now my main interest is bird photography and the D500 is great for that and I have had some super results with fast tracking focus and very good noise levels up to 3200 ISO. So far weather has not been good to give the D850 a run at serious bird photography. As I have no need to sell the D500 I shall take my time. I think the D850 will outpreform nearly any camera including D500 I have ever had. As you know big problem with bird photography is they tend to be small and not too keen on you getting close enough to get good pix. So high def camera that also gives good focus and works well with high ISO must be good news. All reviews so far have been very good but I need to use it a good bit longer on the right subjects. I notice JK, like me, also bit cautious with comments too soon? |
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jk
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Been waiting to test under the new LR 6.13 This is only just available and I have it now so I need to retest my processed images and take a look and comment. |
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Robert
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JK, At risk of taking this off topic, with a 'new' version of Adobe Lightroom, given that Lightroom doesn't actually touch the original image, it simply applies a set of instructions each time it presents the image for viewing or printing etc., with the new version does that make any difference from the same image presented with a previous version of Lightroom? If that makes sense? If the Lightroom 'rendering engine' has been improved will that present a better (Brighter, sharper, clearer?) image than a previous version of Lightroom with an older version of the rendering engine? What if you wanted a dark, dreamy soft, indistinct image...  |
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jk
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Yes the version can make a difference. There are currently two rendering engines in LR. If you want a difference then output before it is rerendered. Dont forget that there are also image versions! |
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Robert
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jk wrote:Dont forget that there are also image versions!  OK, I give up! |
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jk
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I always said that Adobe had made the design of LR too complex and not modular enough. Dare I say it “Some of the west coast software developers are very poor system architects!†Š‰ˆðŸ˜Ž |
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Robert
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jk wrote:I always said that Adobe had made the design of LR too complex and not modular enough. I would agree, they seem to pursue their own agendas irrespective of the user experience. Tunnel vision. So much software has grossly under employed features that clutter up RAM and other resources when only a tiny minority of users actually use these features. Todays SSD's can rustle up code in a trice, well designed modular software would be good. |
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Graham Whistler
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At last Adobe Photoshop CC has caught up and I can now process D850 Nefs! |
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jk
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Adobe who??? Need to try the competition. I have PS CS6 and it works fine with all my add-ins and actions. |
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jk
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Adobe who??? Need to try the competition. I have PS CS6 and it works fine with all my add-ins and actions. |
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jk
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I have been trying to ascertain how Nikon have managed to make a camera that provides 45/24/12MP all off one sensor. I guess it is processing done in the EXPEED5 chipset. Does anyone have a url that provides this information? |
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jk
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I got this from Iliah Borg of RAWTherapee fame. What we have from Nikon: "Seamlessly switch between RAW sizes of Large (45.7 MP), Medium (25.6 MP) and Small (11.4 MP)" This translates to: Nikon specs: L: 8,256 x 5,504 pixels M: 6,192 x 4,128 pixels S: 4,128 x 2,752 pixels Reality: L: 8,288 x 5,520 pixels M: 7,104 x 4,728 pixels S: 6,216 x 4,136 pixels How it happens: - first, the raw data for M and S is resampled in the camera, to get 7,104 x 4,728 and 6,216 x 4,136 from 8,288 x 5,520; - next, it is resampled in raw converter software, to get 6,192 x 4,128 from 7,104 x 4,728, and 4,128 x 2,752 from 6,216 x 4,136. M and S formats contain bayer pattern, not YCC data, as it was with previous sRAW format. PS. This is not the first time Nikon are underreporting the number of pixels, same happened with D1x (and in a way, with D1 and D1h too). |
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Eric
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jk wrote:I got this from Iliah Borg of RAWTherapee fame. Not sure I understand? Is he saying that the downsized files sizes are NOT 25.6 and 11.4mp but 33.5 and 25.7mp resp? And you need to use Adobe raw to get the rest? You could confirm that my taking some shots at those settings? I suppose the $64000 question is .....what's the quality difference between Nikon's resampling and merely cropping the 45mp image to the same dimensions? Unless you have no intention of post processing or have limited space on your SD cards, I don't see the point in shoooting at these lesser standards......unless the IQ is better resampling than cropping? |
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jk
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Re: How it happens: - first, the raw data for M and S is resampled in the camera, to get 7,104 x 4,728 and 6,216 x 4,136 from 8,288 x 5,520; - next, it is resampled in raw converter software, to get 6,192 x 4,128 from 7,104 x 4,728, and 4,128 x 2,752 from 6,216 x 4,136. The first part is as I expected an EXPEED5 processing event. I dont understand the second part. |
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Eric
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jk wrote:Re: I suppose if the second part is a raw converter event, it would be interesting to know if ALL raw converters do it? Still don't understand the wisdom of down sampling photos in camera or in raw converter. Any intervention that reduces an image size, however effected, is an inevitable quality downgrade....however well effected. I never downsample an image till it's required at a lower resolution....and always keep the full size version, just in case. This was a lesson learnt very early on in digital, when I was required to print a large exhibition panel 4m x 3m from a photo I had accidentally downsampled in PS and oversaved at kb size! After all, we never cutdown our trannies and negatives I prefer to have the biggest possible master ...just in case. |
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jk
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I agree Eric but I think that 45MP may be overkill in some/many situations. |
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Eric
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jk wrote:I agree Eric but I think that 45MP may be overkill in some/many situations. That's true, the instances of needing full size 45mp files will be few and far between. I would just like to know if the procedures for Nikon downsampling to the M or S level result in files that are the same quality as cropping the full size file? ...and then.... I would love to know if the D500 files are inferior to cropped or downsampled D850 files? I am prepared to buy back into Nikon with a D850 but it's a large chunk of money that could be spent elsewhere, if the need for 45mp can be ignored...especially with the 1.5x advantage of DX. I am in the process of recouping funds by selling redundant technology and photo gear and hope to make a decision in January. I don't suppose you could send me some sample files? D500 v D850 v D850 downsampled to M and S. If you can, they would all need to be jpegs as I don't have the raw converters for D500 or D850 raw files. |
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jk
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I think that a call to Nikon UK Tech Support from one of you living in the UK is the best way for us to get some of this information. |
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jk
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Focus stacking on the D850 https://nikonrumors.com/2017/12/14/nikon-d850-focus-stacking-tutorials.aspx/#more-117911 This one illustrates it simply. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hewQTjslhNw&feature=youtu.be |
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Robert
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Thanks JK, very interesting. This obviously uses the re-focus technique to achieve the differing images rather than shifting the camera slightly closer (or further away) to (or from) the subject. I'm not clear on the pro's and cons of the two techniques but I guess both can be made to work and provide artificially increased DoF. I have really only used it to bring particularly interesting parts of an image into focus by taking two or three exposures focused on the areas of interest and layering them in Ps, revealing the parts I want in the final image. Which is a lot of work. Not sure this feature of the D850 could achieve that sort of focus stacking... I am planning to start experimenting with indoor flower photography using extremely fast longish lenses, with minimal DoF but dreamy bokeh. I may have to resort to focus stacking to get the results I desire but will be very content to use the D3(S...) and do this manually. No doubt for those who enjoy the D850 it's another string in their bow. Not quite the spontaneous grab process I had expected but maybe accessible via a function button? Would need to be set up for a typical scenario I guess. |
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jk
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Dont know enough of the why and wherefores of macro photography but thought I would post as a reference item for us. |
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Robert
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Well the focus, versus moving the entire camera and lens (or the subject) is to do with the lens. Some lenses achieve close focus by shortening the focal length. Notably the Nikkor Micro AF lenses. Although the perspective remains constant, the field of view changes but depending on how the image's are blended into one, that may not matter. |
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Dave Groen
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Here's my initial attempt at focus stacking with my D850. This is the first focus point. The camera refocuses from the closest to the farthest distance. Attachment: FocusStacking2.jpg (Downloaded 12 times) |
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Dave Groen
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This is the result after letting Photoshop assemble the images. There's a bit of jaggedness, but this is a worst-case scenario. The jaggedness wouldn't be nearly as noticeable in an image without all these straight lines. Attachment: FocusStacking1.jpg (Downloaded 12 times) |
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jk
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Nice work Dave. The wooden rule probably doesnt allow best illustration as you say but it still works well. An engineer's metal rule would be better. |
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Robert
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Perhaps with dedicated stacking software like Zyrene Stacker, it might work out better. This was the first link I found... http://www.microbehunter.com/microscopy-forum/viewtopic.php?t=3415 I guess a steel rule would be less susceptible to bending!!! Perhaps also more, smaller steps might fix the stepping? |
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Robert
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I stumbled upon this item on the D850 recently. I haven't finished reading it yet but I think it may be interesting for some. http://www.squiver.com/blog/behind-hercules/ There is also a very nice (night) time lapse video commissioned by Nikon, the making of which is the subject of the article. |
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