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| mercury batteries | Rate Topic |
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Wed May 16th, 2012 15:13 | 1st Post |
| Topic migrated from old site. Am currently developing a project to make my own mercury batteries, initially for watch use. Any chemists on here or anyone with an interest please feel welcome to comment. Project status is; Sourced chemicals needed. So far produced mercury oxide by taking mercury to mercury nitrate, then desiccating and finally pyrolysis into oxide. Next stage is a glass test cell.
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| Posted by KirkP: Thu May 17th, 2012 00:28 | 2nd Post |
| Errr... please be careful, mercury vapor is nasty stuff! Best of luck!
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| Posted by Doug: Thu May 17th, 2012 12:55 | 3rd Post |
| Aren't mercury batteries illegal? Perhaps that's just for commercial sale
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| Posted by Robert: Thu May 17th, 2012 13:18 | 4th Post |
Doug wrote:Aren't mercury batteries illegal? Probably... What better reason to make some! 
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by jk: Thu May 17th, 2012 13:39 | 5th Post |
| Better than silver bullets I believe. Steve, can you make them bullet shaped ?. There are several politicans that need one to aid their thinking.
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| Posted by Constable: Thu May 17th, 2012 15:49 | 6th Post |
| Steve As my day job involves making test devices for photovoltaics and lighting, I guess I qualify. I posted some suppliers on the old thread. But I have to ask the question, why you are bothering with this, unless it is simply the challenge of doing it. I would never trust a home-made cell in any important instrument (watch, camera etc.). Ed
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Thu May 17th, 2012 18:16 | 7th Post |
KirkP wrote: Errr... please be careful, mercury vapor is nasty stuff! only if you inhale it.
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Thu May 17th, 2012 18:20 | 8th Post |
Constable wrote: Steve1 yes the challenge. 2 the satisfaction of not getting stuffed over by big business and owned government. Home made is ok in watches or anything else, the key is getting the seal right.
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Thu May 17th, 2012 18:28 | 9th Post |
Doug wrote: Aren't mercury batteries illegal?Not on my property.
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Thu May 17th, 2012 18:40 | 10th Post |
jk wrote: Better than silver bullets I believe.Trouble is mercury is liquid, you'd have to dose the bullet with oxide, but then if the bullet killed them, you'd have wasted a lot of work and precious HgO. A better way would be to somehow get them to swallow a capsule containing sodium metal, in that way they'd effectively have a thermic lance working it's way through, nice and slow. Might hurt a bit though. Personally I think if at the next general election absolutely no none voted, then a government cannot be formed and that would be much more powerful.
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Thu May 17th, 2012 18:46 | 11th Post |
| .....mind you, I'm glad Ms B of the NOTW is getting her comeuppance. It tickles me to watch someone express such indignation when caught for wrong doing. I mean, who do these people think they are.
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| Posted by Robert: Thu May 17th, 2012 19:39 | 12th Post |
steve of oxford wrote:...I mean, who do these people think they are. Highly paid gods with too high an opinion of themselves, no humility.
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| Posted by jk: Fri May 18th, 2012 09:45 | 13th Post |
Robert wrote: steve of oxford wrote:Well I am glad that I'm not there in UK. That said many places politicians are just as bad, I think it is a failing that goes with the role!!
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Fri May 18th, 2012 16:34 | 14th Post |
jk wrote: Robert wrote:Yeah. Strange but I often wonder if the Jehova witnesses have got it sussed. Seems everything they are predicting is actually happening, with uncanny accuracy.steve of oxford wrote:Well I am glad that I'm not there in UK. Still, if it ever goes belly up big style at least there's the chance some of these puffed up over paid ponses like RB, RM and the politicians they bought will be dragged onto the streets and gutted like fish. Jehovas can have their paradise, I'd just be content with the opportunity to get my hands on some of the scum on my way out. Same applies to all the HR power cows who hawked their wares to get to the top, crapping on smaller people along the way. Bank executives, tax officials, traffic wardens, the town hall corrupt, the whole filthy lot...drag 'em out by the hair & do 'em! RB: " it's not fair I should be punished for trying to hide those computers " Yeah yeah, whistle. You'll be off to Holloway lol. Right, mercury batteries; the mercury nitrate crystal and mercury oxide are nice and stable, might refine the pyrolysis method this weekend. i.e. I want a slower and more controllable oxidising. When I did it before it spat all over the place, was a bit forced but still produced very good mercury oxide.
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| Posted by Squarerigger: Fri May 18th, 2012 19:25 | 15th Post |
steve of oxford wrote:jk wrote:Robert wrote:Yeah. Strange but I often wonder if the Jehova witnesses have got it sussed. Seems everything they are predicting is actually happening, with uncanny accuracy.steve of oxford wrote:Well I am glad that I'm not there in UK. Gee Steve, it's not good to repress your feelings. You really need to express you anger and frustrations, don't hold back! Worst thing you can do. I've heard it can cause ulcers and even fainting spells - Steve, Steve ... are you there? Mods, please take a look see through that camera thing at the top of the monitor and see if we need to send medical assistance to Steve. Sorry Steve, I had a good laugh reading your rant, sounds like something I would have said. Behind you all the way, except making the batteries - sounds dangerous to me. 
____________________ -------------------------------------------- Gary |
| Posted by jk: Sat May 19th, 2012 03:05 | 16th Post |
It is the mercury, he is getting the vapours!!
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Sat May 19th, 2012 16:22 | 17th Post |
jk wrote:It is the mercury, he is getting the vapours!! lol. I don't need mercury vapours to see what's happening around me. You can go mad enough in this country without hatter's medium....all you have to do is go about your lawful business not bothering anyone...find yourself shafted & crapped on if not by some total stranger then certainly by the state. It's what comes of the shift from a democracy to a corporate model. In this country, the key is to look fit so as to gain position by hawking your way up (most usually found in HR and public sector), or be rich so you can buy your way, most usually in banks, town halls etc. It's difficult to know which of the two had it right; pol pot or the Jehova witnesses. At times I think certain types should be dragged out & done, other times when I see stuff on the news it reminds me of society morally breaking down exactly the way Jehova's lot said it would. In fact this evening my eldest son was talking to me and said he had seen american you tubes where vagrants from the streets were being paid to participate in their own abuse.....sickening way to treat someone less fortunate, morally disgusting. Apparently the practise of paying 'bums' a few bucks to be humiliated for you tube is quite a popular pastime in the US. I can't write about that anymore I just find it so repugnant. Why for Christ's sake if the person is down on their luck and you're going to give him money can you not just buy the poor soul a decent hot meal?
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Sat May 19th, 2012 16:28 | 18th Post |
Squarerigger wrote:steve of oxford wrote: I don't need medical assistance, but you can send some mercury ore I'll accept that. AH!...Jonathan, the country where you live is rich in HgS deposits. Dig some out, grind it up and heat it to about 400c. Draw off and condense the fumes, that gives you mercury metal. In fact Jonathan, some of the mines there in Spain go back to roman times.
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| Posted by blackfox: Sun May 20th, 2012 03:23 | 19th Post |
| the actual way to the top ,fame ,fortune and mixing with the stars is easy ,get yourself a stall down petticoat lane and become a lord . heres a bit of history there have been two recent "advisers " to british prime ministers lord levy and sir alan sugar ,now funnily enough i know both of these personally having grown up with them in the east end of london ,lord levy living a couple of hundred yards down my street . they both started there empires by working down petticoat lane lord levy selling towels and the like ,alan (sugar baby) sugar selling pots and pans or any crap he could find . the other thing of note is the fact that there stalls were in the same section of the market a little triangle of land .virtually back to back ..so there ya go we live in a country run by eton posh boys who are advised by barrow boys :wtf::wtf::wtf:
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Sun May 20th, 2012 06:02 | 20th Post |
| Hmm..not so much that they were barrow boys. Something else they have in common I think you'll find. As for 'lords', well anyone can be one of those. According to Blair any old crony can be made a lord, ignoring the fact that you have to be born a lord. So, if Blair's mates & stooges can be lords, so can the rest of us.
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| Posted by Robert: Sun May 20th, 2012 06:13 | 21st Post |
| Lord Steve of Oxford? You get my vote!
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by steve of oxford: Sun May 20th, 2012 08:49 | 22nd Post |
| Lord Robert of Keswick I presume?
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| Posted by Robert: Sun May 20th, 2012 11:45 | 23rd Post |
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by Constable: Sun May 20th, 2012 12:01 | 24th Post |
| Let me up the stakes to the highest levels of the aristocracy. Maybe Steve should become King Steve? And old use for mercury was in curing King's evil or scrofula. The King was meant to be able to touch people and cure them ... it was then found that the mercury that was being prescribed for the syphilis also cured scrofula. So, my case is that Steve will now have absorbed so much mercury, that just to touch him will cure you of scrofula. Ergo, King Steve. Sorry, it's been a stressful day arguing energy politics! Ed
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Sun May 20th, 2012 15:26 | 25th Post |
Constable wrote: Let me up the stakes to the highest levels of the aristocracy.lol. what you may not realise Ed is that mercury actually did kill some of the royalty. I think one of the king Johns was riddled with the pox but done in by the mercury, according to history not before he went totally insane. No doubt Jonathan will give us a more accurate history lesson. Incidentally another one was murdered with a red hot poker up his backside. the arsassin's orders was to leave no mark upon his body. So being a king in those days carried it's risks. A few of 'em also got beheaded.
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| Posted by jk: Sun May 20th, 2012 16:53 | 26th Post |
Constable wrote:Let me up the stakes to the highest levels of the aristocracy. Hope you can have a restful day out with the D800E. Iwant to see a comparison between your S2 and the D800E. More useful to see live images than boring building comparisons!
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Mon May 28th, 2012 16:13 | 27th Post |
| Further development; Had a small batch of mercury nitrate crystals in a watch glass in the shed, by the window. The sunny weather has turned it into mercury oxide. Makes me wonder if you can pyrolyse the salts with a UV lamp?
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| Posted by Constable: Tue May 29th, 2012 16:32 | 28th Post |
| I don't think so. A quick look in Gmelin doesn't show anything. Is it really oxide or basic nitrate from hydrolysis? Ed
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Wed May 30th, 2012 00:46 | 29th Post |
Constable wrote:I don't think so. No it's oxide by pyrolysis in the case of heating the nitrate crystals, or, I suspect a kind of slow pyrolysis by leaving the crystals in the sun. Slowly reacted with the oxygen in the air, basically. Here's from wiki; The red form of HgO can be made by heating Hg on oxygen at roughly 350 °C, or by pyrolysis of Hg(NO3)2. Moreover, heating the Hg(NO3)2 crystals causes them to melt, thus driving out any water, then the liquid crystal dries up and goes orange....because it's oxidized. I think the same thing has happened to the crystals I left in the sun, although the weaker colour suggests that not as much oxygen has been reacted with.
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Mon Jun 4th, 2012 04:59 | 30th Post |
| Update: Just refined the pyrolysis process this morning, now getting mercury II oxide. (was mercury I). Difference is in the particle size, but ideally HgO II is what you need for batteries. Also found a source of pure potassium hydroxide in dry flake form...ideal. ....And two sources of zinc. One is zinc oxide in powder form, the other zinc metal. The latter believe it or not is in abundance as car wheel balancing weights. Seems they went to zinc from lead. This is needed for anode material and can be melted to cast small anode ingots. I think I'll order the potassium hydroxide since I am now at that stage. Next thing it to devise a test cell, I have a novel idea of using lab glass tube with anode and cathode at the ends. In this way I can see what is going on inside. When that is proven and tested, I'll move on to making a button cell case and devise a filling method. The difficult part here is the roll-over swage forming the seal. Though I envisage turning a couple of press tools that should do the job. The seals will have to be pre cast with vulcanising silicone, should be no trouble to machine a mould for that. Ultimately I'll run into difficulty (though not insurmountable) with running out of mercury metal and having to build a small bench refinery to work the ore. Basically a small rotary furnace with continuous extraction running into a condenser. Getting there, slowly but surely.
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| Posted by Robert: Mon Jun 4th, 2012 05:13 | 31st Post |
| Well done Steve, an enthralling story. Looking forward to the next instalment. :=)
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by steve of oxford: Mon Jun 4th, 2012 05:32 | 32nd Post |
Robert wrote:Well done Steve, an enthralling story. Actually it's been dead easy to get to the mercury oxide stage. I chuckle to think that the one UK stockist refused to sell me any cos I wasn't big enough, so two fingers to them I just went away and made my own,  If security was their concern, perhaps the goons would have been better off selling me a quantity. As things stand I've made some, and no one knows how much or where I am, or if I am holding ethanol (which basically makes the concoction into mercury fulminate). Like I said, goons. Same to the battery big incs, cut the supply?...no problem I'll just make my own! No one's gonna force me into deliberate obsolescence. It's quite a satisfying achievement to learn that the principle component is a chemical you're not allowed to buy, and end up with home brew in a test tube. Looking at it right now, beautiful red powder. Certainly enough to get a test cell built and did it all with nothing more than an old thermometer and some nitric acid. I'd disclose where I got the nitric acid but not wishing the kill joy authorities an opportunity to remove the supply I can't remember where I got it from, but you can get a litre for about 8 quid...and that makes a lot of mercury nitrate.
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Mon Jun 4th, 2012 15:25 | 33rd Post |
| Just read a paper this afternoon on microwave pyrolysis. Ran off another batch of mercury nitrate, now drying to crystal....might try and microwave it. If that works it'd be a very controllable way of getting mercury oxide. Crystalline substances should excite very well in microwave radiation, so the theory goes. I'll let you know if I blow the door off the oven.
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| Posted by Robert: Mon Jun 4th, 2012 15:58 | 34th Post |
steve of oxford wrote:I'll let you know if I blow the door off the oven.
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by steve of oxford: Mon Jun 4th, 2012 16:26 | 35th Post |
Robert wrote:steve of oxford wrote: I did just that when I was five years old...took the door clean off a range. Didn't sit down for a week! Re mercury. My last batch of nitrate is good, the best yet. It instantly went crystalline as it was poured out of the tube into the drying dish, which signifies a very high mercury content. I intend to separate a small quantity and microwave it. This 'should' produce a very good pyrolysis i.e. decomposition into mercury oxide, but with no introduction of impurities which you can't avoid when using a flame. Another interesting discovery today; although I have source of potassium hydroxide (the electrolyte) I also found a source of potassium carbonate, which if heated strongly, gives off carbon dioxide gas, producing potassium oxide. Reacting the oxide with water produces potassium hydroxide. This is handy because the source for the carbonate is the same as for the zinc oxide, so I can virtually get everything from one place, and though they don't sell potassium hydroxide, it should be no real bother to get the Co2 out of the carbonate and then hydrate the oxide left. This is all starting to come together beautifully, but everything hinges on the quality of the HgO, though I'm pretty sure I got good mercury oxide. I could test it by heating and condensing the vapour....which should condense as metal mercury, however I ran out of mercury now and am reluctant to expend any of the oxide I have made. Prefer to go straight to test cell stage with what I have got. On a slightly different approach I do have a source of genuine vermilion, which is mercury ore, i.e. pure mercury sulphide. I am wondering if you could use mercury sulphide directly if you used a sulphur based electrolyte, thus turning mercury metal into nitrate, then into oxide could be avoided altogether. But for now I think I'll progress with an HgO test cell. Maybe try HgS later on. Unfortunately for now I have work and expenditure on the car so I'll have to diversify my time somewhat.
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Thu Nov 8th, 2012 04:39 | 36th Post |
| Update: Have now established a source of electrolyte, Sodium Hydroxide. There were two electrolytes used in mercury batteries, Potassium Hydroxide and Sodium Hydroxide. The latter preferred for heavier current surge applications and elevated temperatures. Now need to find some thin zinc sheet, zinc oxide, and should be ready to make one. Possibly the zinc sheet can come from an old dry battery casing, the zinc oxide is used a lot in skin cosmetics. Nearly there!
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| Posted by Constable: Thu Nov 8th, 2012 10:21 | 37th Post |
| Steve Zinc oxide http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zinc-Oxide-Powder-1-lb-with-FREE-SHIPPING-/120567402690 Ed
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| Posted by Constable: Thu Nov 8th, 2012 10:23 | 38th Post |
| ... And at risk appearing "Granny State" and annoying you, take care with the NaOH Ed
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Thu Nov 8th, 2012 11:47 | 39th Post |
Constable wrote:... And at risk appearing "Granny State" and annoying you, take care with the NaOH On these premises we don't do nanny state, political correctness, EU bureaucracy or anything like that. It's a little corner of England still defiant. Thanks for the link on zinc oxide, though actually there's a supplier in London who will sell to the public, and he's got ZnO, Mercury ore, Potassiums etc. The sodium hydroxide I found in a rather cunning source, available from any DIY outfit. I also need some graphite to mix with the HgO, but this is found in any carpenter's pencil. The main challenge now is not the chemicals, but designing and producing a case which doesn't leak. I'm initially thinking of a three part case: Delrin body with two steel threaded end caps. In this way the case could be re-fillable. The issue here is that the case for my cell application has to be a mere 11.6mm X 3.6mm, so some careful lathe work is needed and a very fine thread on the end caps
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Sun Nov 11th, 2012 04:30 | 40th Post |
Constable wrote:Steve Many thanks for that link Ed. However I can report I have now ordered the final chemicals needed, i.e. Zinc Oxide powder, and powdered Mercury ore. I've opted for Sodium Hydroxide electrolyte rather than potassium, since I already have a large amount in stock. It will make no difference to the cell voltage. I did have a small amount of metal mercury, which I've taken to mercury nitrate and pyrolised to pure mercury oxide and it should be more than enough quantity to make a cathode of the first test cell. In future I plan to obtain metal mercury from mercury ore, which I've found a good supply of. For this I will need to build a small propane powered furnace and condenser, though with my intended design I'm confident I should have mercury steadily dripping down a condenser outlet into a flask. Amazing that despite the EU and it's spineless British government banning everything containing mercury, I was still able to do this, and with constituents widely available. You just need to know where to look. (probably some filthy grubby EU lobbyist banned it because he personally had a stockpile, thus creating a rarity and driving the value up - corruption again) But for me the most rewarding part was making near as damn pure mercury oxide all by myself, after getting refused business by a certain namby pamby British chemical company. Unless anyone knows different I reckon I must be the only individual in the world who's making his own mercury cells, after searching for many months I've not found anyone else doing this.
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| Posted by steve of oxford: Tue Nov 20th, 2012 16:23 | 41st Post |
| My mercury ore has arrived ! initial testing revels a good presence of mercury metal.....now all I have to do is make a small desktop refinery. Ha ha.....UP YOURS EU WITH YOUR STUPID SISSY BANS !
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| Posted by Robert: Tue Nov 20th, 2012 17:24 | 42nd Post |
Go for it Steve! [what happened to the LARGE thumbs?]  This one... I had to go rescue it from the old forum. Attachment: Screen Shot 2012-11-20 at 22.23.45.jpg (Downloaded 4 times)
____________________ Robert. |
| Posted by steve of oxford: Tue Nov 20th, 2012 17:31 | 43rd Post |
Robert wrote:Go for it Steve! [what happened to the LARGE thumbs?] I feel like finding everything that damned EU banned, and doing it just to stick two up 'em. Same goes for HM government. No one I didn't vote for tells me what to do. Potassium hydroxide Sodium hydroxide Nitric acid Mercury sulphide Mercury nitrate Refined mercury Mercury Oxide Get that EU? LOL
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